nice shooting brake style concept, very european. actually with the volumes i see volvo... but in ur good way

...well, I've never been to the US ;)

A little Austin Martin, too.

Yes, beautifully European. And, personally, a dose of sexy, sophisticated European design is just what Detroit needs. Reminds me of Maserati, too. Great work - one of the best!

i just zoomed your panel and found out that rendering is wicked cool..i would give 5 points for the rendering techniques alone. I want It! where do i sign up?? hehehe

Dima, coolno))

cool and nicely done, nice rendering style too!

Recalls the European style, especially the Pininfarina Sintesi concept. Cool render. I like it ;)

Privet dimitri.. i like your style! Good luck!

this is just beautiful....you`ve got a really amazing style... nice work...

wow~ elegant style and beautiful color

Best entry

agreed, has that volvo blood in it, but thats a good thing! very sleek and nice! not sure about the storage space size, but im liking the design!

It's clean and minimalism. I like this style, it looks like a concept car.

The front and back look a bit much like the Sintesi concept, but overall this is pretty sleek and awesomely rendered, in traditional Dmytro style. Nice!

click to enlarge

The Sintesi is one of the most beautiful cars of all time - so consider the comparison a huge compliment.

yes the rear can carry Mountainbike it's help City to natural.

crazy sketches and style man. you got some bit time rendering skills :D i can even see the power and adrenaline within' these three views!

i want this everytime i look at it more and more.

This is my favourite!!! I want it!!! Great render style!!! 5 for me!!! Bravo amigo!!!!

are u too lazy to make a render? or do u use paint to render it?

beautiful!

Dmytro, really impressive and stylish thing right here.

Ohhh..this is in another league-I wish I could render like that. I am afraid I will have to give you a five !!

Well.. I agree with eklop.. Frankly speaking, it sucks...

i see volvo&aston martin in your design.. i really think you need "creativity"

@ eklop & masterpiece: them's fightin' words! All opinions are welcome here, but negative commentary should be constructive. Considering also that the LM community hasn't seen any design work from either of you, some justification of these strong statements would be helpful. A lot of us could learn something from Carbofos.

like the overall design ... pretty good skill ! love the render ^^ about the design, reminds me the AstonMartin by bertone for the rear and a little bit the Maserati GT for the front ... ^^ nice influences in my opinion ...

The renderings are very nice , the shape of the concept is also a good job . The storage capacity is not very good , but for your chosen target I think is ok . It is some kinde of Citroen C- Airdream Concept . You made a good job , good luck ! :-)

click to enlarge

Hyper-renders indeed...

OMG!! your style is unique!!!very clean your design

this would look right at home in a frame on a wall....

your sketching style are amazing! Nice sketches!

wow, wonderful forms and style. nice work

Wow. Simple elegant 5. Shooting break. A little Franz vonH on the front like a Model S but only slightly and that is a good thing. Very Very well rendered. 5. This has winning potential written all over it.

C, I'm not familiar with your past entries, but your shooting brake concept reminds me of Syd Meade's style of presentation .... beautiful.

Sweet and elegant style. Congs!

What a beauty... so elegant- yet strong. 5's all the way.

hi, good picturies

Superb, as always! Super shaped, elegant, dynamic.. fantastic! Дима - крутан! ;)

Elegant indeed. Everyone keeps talking about your rendering technique! Email me if you're interested in contributing to the upcoming Local Motors tutorial and sharing your finesse :) aferreira@local-motors.com

a classic italian shape and presence. reminds me of 1990s bertone styling, or an early work of a famous car designer...

Congratulations! what an achievement. a new style and a new winning member of the LM lineup. Wow! we are honored. Well done and well earned. I look forward to listening to your interview.

Congrats! on your Victory! All the Best

A shooting break for the design books.

Congrats - I guess it's true...subtlety is the new luxury...or something like that.

I knew it was going to be like that!.. ;-P

Yeah, Vadim, big surprise, eh? :) Nice one, Dmytro! Congrats.

Hoho!! Congrats on a well deserved win!!! Hope to see more from you!!cheers.

Congratulations !! Very very nice vehicle! I like so much your work ! cheers.

Congratulations. I agree with everyone on your rendering style, it is very elegant and fun to look at. I personally feel that the actual vehicle itself is a very nice design just not for Detroit. I live there and in my view something that is always missed with us is the fact that the car designers and art people love Eurostyling, the rest of us blue collar Detroiter's want something that reminds us of our past and our tough history while still looking to the future. In my opinion this car does not say Detroit to me or remind me of our long car past that we so love to brag about. Everyone on this site is saying how it looks very Euro, Volvo, and like the Sintesi. To win a Detroit competition none of those cars should be mentioned or be what you think of. It has to be classic American only. The winner of the Boston competition reminds me of a Detroit car. I just think there were others (not mine) that fit the Detroit requirements better. (Revive-100, Tryme, Agora, Vigilant, PS vehicle) Detroit is not elegant, it is tough and industrial, any of the above concepts reflect that. I don't see this car towing my snowmobiles up to the U.P. (michigans upper peninsula) in the winter. It is a designers car. It seems to me your rendering technique won, not the design. I am not knocking your design or your win, it is a very cool concept that would make for a very nice real life vehicle. I can only wish that I could render like you and you are very inspiring in that aspect. This is just my opinion and aimed more at the judges and this site rather than you. If winners are selected by highest vote score only then this is a different game, one that is not about design but rather what looks the coolest or who can render the best. Anyway enjoy your win and keep up the great work and please contribute to the tutorial so we can all inprove! Thanks.

не сомневался..;) поздравляю!

Congrats to the winner. your design is beautiful. Yes. but in context of this competition, I agree with Detroit444. this is not the first time this has happened in these competitions, and nothing has been done to resolve this issue. the issue being a discrepancy between competition entry rules and competition judging. you can not have engineers and philanthropists writing entry guidelines, whilst young amateur car stylists and artists judge the entries. what use it for the apple to get all polished up if oranges are judging him ?? what would make sense though - if these competitions were judged by the LM team - the same people writing the competition brief. or, let the LM community write the brief and guidelines, as well as judging it.

Well, I don't know about anyone else here...but if were in Detroit I would definitely cruise down the freeway in a slick European shooting break such as yours...all the while taking the flak from the muscle car Detroiters with not a hint of apology...in fact I'd rather enjoy it...relish it in fact...and I'd make sure there was a highly tuned Italian or German engine underneath that cheeky bonnet, ready to kick the $#!* out of any 'Vette or Mustang that flexed on me...and looking so effortlessly tasteful in the process. So, toast to your victory, and toast to a new era of American design!

Oh, and BTW, everyone's talking about the great Italian influence here, and some as if that's a bad thing (which it isn't) - well don't forget that Fiat is w/ Chrysler now. Which means Detroit, and all of the US will be run over with Alfas - Yahoooo!

click to enlarge

Well Done Carbofos!!! Congrats for this triumph!!! Your sketching technique is fantastic!!! Hurra!!!

Detroit444 thank you for the well-rounded comment. As for this car not being good for Detroit, I regret your frustration, but this is what we are looking for - your frustration. I only wish you had made such an earnest plea while the design was up here for 10 days. With respect to yours and to FILSKI's thoughts, the community can judge "improperly" at times but as it has grown, it has done a pretty good job representing feelings from people who know, who care, and who think. My grandparents, were engaged and met in Flint and family lived there for decades, perhaps before you were alive, and I guarantee that they would not know anything about the tough cars of which you speak. This is because design changes and evolves. Who is to say what is American? You alone? Me alone? Similarly who is to say what is Eurostyle? Because someone in Europe designs it, doesn't mean it is Eurostyle. Even if people say that the style reminds them of Europe, I disagree with those that think that style does not travel. Some of my best friends in Detroit drive Volvos and Hondas, and love love love them. Further, do not fall prey to the prejudice that might make you believe that people who live elsewhere cannot feel a vibe of a distant land. de Tocqueville (the great French writer and philosopher) knew America better than we knew ourselves and master paintings of our cultural heritage were crafted in hommage to his thoughts on our country. We must break free of the sluggish design language that has imprisoned the car industry and allow people to feel proud to like what appeals to their heart. Please reread the comments in this stream, this design was loved and this design was loved in the context of a competition that was about Detroit and only Detroit. If the result is uncomfortable but enjoyed, then Local Motors has succeeded. The moment that we judge as a Company and impugn the community opinions, is the moment we tumble down a slippery slope. Our community is growing and we are feverishly conducting massive outreach to inform better the comments, critiques, and voting on each entry. We will get closer to the perfect critique, but I would wager that we have already come a long way. Thank you for your thoughts and please encourage others whom you know and love to add their thoughts (and votes) to the mix. The best design for the brief must win, not the best design skill.

Congratulation , I think your style rendering gave the final shot ! Direct to the head :-P .

Detroit444, you are right. It is unarguable that Carbofos deserved this win; you all voted to choose! But as a Detroiter, you are right - I am glad you are making use of this forum to make your desires clear. Also, I live in Chicago (by way of Michigan), and I think the Bullet suits the Chicago aesthetic as well :) Shows that one vehicle design, with a few modifications, can suit multiple regions. I hope the community will continue to support the designs they want to see brought to LIFE! Rally your troops, if you want the Bullet - make it happen.

FILSKI! Great input. For the San Francisco competition I am working on a "video competition" to garner feedback FROM San Franciscans - they help create the competition challenge, then they join the community to vote. I think you're right about this.

I think Detroit444 and FILSKI bring up great points. I agree that this is a great looking car, a nice solution it seems. Still I don't feel "Detroit." jrogers brings up a HUGE conversation about what is American and what's not. About design traveling and the influences design has. Is LM going to speak solely to what was designed in America and revive those cars? I hope not. I understand that LM is here to inspire- here to create a new identity for Automotive design. I am a big fan of this car, I do want one! I think it's lines are really graceful, and it's also appealing that the volumes (as Nemo said) look production ready. Your rendering style is great- all the colors and surface transitions look so believable and communicate the vehicle very well. You have all the shapes and very little detail- which is great here as you're struck by the simplicity of elegant forms. I'd never think this was for Detroit if you didn't have a side view with a bike and such photoshopped in. Would people of Detroit buy this vehicle? I'd bet money on it. It's beautiful! But I don't feel this speaks to the locale the brief focused on. Inspiring Detroit- the vehicle for the up-and-coming of D-town.

On the community and it's judgment- one of the best things we can do is to remind people that these competitions are about fulfilling the brief. Many of the community members are learning and building their skillset, and reign is directed to those they admire. People are drawn to pretty pictures! And yes, that can overshadow a design that could really, on the street, be better for the locale the vehicle was briefed for. I think as the community grows, there will be more people who are not designers who will be voting for cars THEY want. The people who will turn their heads to LM after they see a Rally Fighter on the road, magazine, Internet, tv or other media. Media will tell them when LM is focusing on their town. It's up to the community to follow the brief and vote based on the best solution. Something that's great about the open community for design and voting is the trust that LM has in it.

Brianm, you have parsed my statement very well, and I agree with your observations whole-heartedly. It is the openness of this community that I love, and this debate is magical. Detroit444, FILSKI, and of course, Carbofos are to be congratulated for kicking this off. We are working hard to find a better forum (such as a discussion forum) to maintain this type of discussion! Stand by for something like this to follow in the coming month. Keep it coming.

First and foremost these are design competitions. The best designs win, consistantly the community has been very balanced towards the more elaborate, elegant, even otherworldly designs, and rightfully so. many talented people with many amazing designs have held acclaim in their contests and congrats to all of them for their individualistic approaches to the breifs with regards to boundries and established design trends. LM is all about breaking out of the box and creating that new standard. As a part of that new standard, and as i have mentioned to other members such as myself trying to improve their skillset, ANY DESIGN ON THIS SITE CAN BE CHOSEN TO BE THE NEXT LOCAL MOTORS CAR, NOT JUST COMPETITION WINNERS. Lets reveiw, Sangho's Rally Fighter started as a BMW idea as a checkup. Me2's Ex-Ta-C was i believe a second place design. The Mito, also a checkup, began as a Ferrari ideation. While i agree that Mihai's bullet could be massively popular and not just specific for Boston, it establishes a theme her at LM i have picked up on, and i love about this community. Inspiration can come from anywhere in the world, and still be distinctly american, and also that we as a worldwide community can set new standards for america and even the world in this industry. IMO, we already have.

oops i meant WITHOUT regards to design trends and boundries....

I was really quite surprised by the low average scores of the winners. Those scores would mean they won with a C+ or at the best a B- grade. I hope this is not an indication of nefarious activities in the voting.

Bullet, Bullet, Bullet, Bullet, Bullet!

Congratulation very cooooool design keep goin on :)

Jrogers asked me to keep it coming so I will. First to Bentley Boy You illustrate my point perfectly. Thank you. We were to design a vehicle that was to reflect the essence of Detroit. To appeal to, as you say "muscle car Detroiters" Many designers I know make fun of this and are obsessed with German and Italian design. Yet almost all of the mechanics, auto workers, cops, firefighters, store owners, and business pros that I have met in this area all drive Fords, Chevys, Chryslers. This is not because they really love the designs of most of these domestics, it is because all of our families have, for generations, been somehow involved in this auto industry. Detroit is unique that way, unlike any other city. We were to design a vehicle to reflect that. To appeal to those people. To reflect their history. To make them proud. You are proud to do the opposite, to thow sand in their face. This is how many of the designers I know feel, instead of making Detroit's vehicle better, they want to erase them. So how can someone like you design a car for Detroit? You have to open up your mind. Yes, you can love German and Italian cars, but Detroit wants something from Detroit built in Detroit, you missed that point in the brief. (We are more than just muscle cars BTW as in the 70 years of vehicles before them)

First of all: congrats to Carfobos for such beauty. I look forward to see your next projects. Looks there are two trends: those who do not give too much importance to LM’s guidelines and vote “by heart” and those who think that guidelines are necessary and should be followed. It’s a recurent issue. I personaly agree with the last one. In fact, I think it’s better for the sake of LM’s in the long term. Remember: There is something more exciting and commendable than a nice design: A NICE DESIGN THAT FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES. Following guidelines asures there is no cheating. It is unfair to prepare a project with little time, following LM’s guidelines, while someone picks a nice project of whatever theme, for which he/she had spent a lot of time to refine it, and just changes the title. I’m not saying this is often or that it has happened in this last comp, but it can happen. Its good to discuss on this and I just wanted to give my opinion on this respect. Chao!

Jrogers, your turn. First of all I do think so therefore I do know that not everyone who lives in Detroit owns a Detroit car or even cares about them. I have fixed people's cars who don't even know the model that they are driving. I don't know why you are talking about what is American and what is not as that is not the issue. We are not talking about the future design language of America, as you are right that things change as different influences come around. We are taking about Detroit and the "people" of Detroit. Designing a car specifically to reflect their history and all that I said above to Bently Boy. Yes some people who live there drive Toyotas, Volvos and others and I myself have had a Toyota Tacoma. Your friends in Detroit can love their imports that is a mute point as we were to appeal to the history and influence of the city and to the people as a whole. What good is the brief which talks about Detroit's highs and lows, that shows the old architechture, that talks of motown, that shows a video of the Woodward dream cruise so that we can base our design on those things if what wins is not really the best depiction of that brief. Is this car, or should I say shooting brake (which nobody says in Detroit), what as the brief wanted It says, "Design a vehicle they will be proud to name after their hometown" They may be proud to own a nice vehicle like this but would they be proud to name it after their home town? Not me. Not to say it is a bad design or one that would not sell in Detroit, it would. I feel that other contestants followed the brief more closely. Again to the Boston winner. When you see it you think, that is an American hot rod. It proves that you can reflect the past and still use new and different influences to create a fresh design. Same with Chicago. long low and sinister. These two could have Euro influences but they still remind people of the American style. I am not the one to choose what is American. I looked at the comments above and they all are the ones who said it looks Euro, I agreed. In a contest to reflect the brief we should be saying the winner reminds me of this or that american car or whatever not Euro cars. Yes many American cars were influenced by Euro style. The most American car, the first Mustang, was influenced by a Euro shape and there were many others. I am not saying this can't be or that it is bad. I am not a victim of prejudice saying that someone in Europe can't understand the Detroit vibe, they can and I hope they do but the car has to reflect that vibe. I think others did a better job of that. As you say,"We must break free of the sluggish design language that has imprisoned the car industry and allow people to feel proud to like what appeals to their heart." I could not agree more. That is what I want. But we can do that and still follow the brief. When I look at the Hawaii winner I think yes, that is Hawaii. When I see the Miami winner I think the same. When I see the Boston and Chicago winners I think those are Americanish cars. When I see the Detroit winner I just don't feel it for that city. You could take that car and put it in any city in America (besides Detrioit) or any city in Europe and it would look at home. You want a car that says Detroit. You won't see the Hawaii car in Detroit so you shouldn't be able to see the Detriot car in anyother city as Detroit is unlike anyother city good or bad. Yes, Detroit needs new thinking, change and a major update so lets do that and still reflect it's history and contributions. Thanks for the imput.

Jrogers, I reread most of the comments and most talked of how good his rendering style was not how functional it was for Detroit. I can only assume they voted the same way. Sorry to Carbofor. but he has the minimum views, you can't tell if this is something he made just for this competion or if he used a render from something else, he makes no reference to the history or essance of Detroit or its people. He doesn't label how it works or talk about winter or engine power. He has a bike in the back but the other views do not support the function of this in the roof area. Yes it is great, but it could be for any city. Does this show the essance of Detroit or fulfill the brief requirements? Do people think of all these things when they vote? I do but I think most vote on the pretty factor because that is what the scale asks them to do. Many entries on here address all the stuff above that was in the brief and the went through the trouble to make multiple views to show how things work and how they can be built. They talk of the essance of Detroit and label their stuff. Cars like Tryme, Agora and even third place Iron all fit more than one niche that will be needed to rebuild Detroit and they fit the brief, the look and feel of Detroit. Secon place is awsome and fits the bill too but I doubt it could meet the real world requrements to be built so therefore maybe shouldn't be second. A judgeing panel will see that, voters may not.......and I should say thanks for the input not imput. Keep up the great work.

Ok, last one, the BIGGER ISSUE that is really the heart of the discussion. This is not really about Carbofor's design, it is about who picks the winner and based upon what. Please all of you who have not read all that is above take the time to read it all, think about it and give your views so we can help LM make this site better and more balanced for us all. Tell others to come read this. Filski, Brianm and Ra, you hit the nail on the head!!We all think this is fun and want it to work right? We all have a passion for vehicles and wish LM and each other well right? So these opinions will only help improve this site right? As Filski, Brianm. Ra and I have said, some recurring issues need to be addressed. The main issue being who decides the winners. As Filski mentioned, is it the voters or the LM staff. Is it based on who met the brief requirements best or what looks the best. In the ignition kit it says that in a sketch competition you can enter with anything from a pen drawing to a full 3d computer rendering. It matters not as the winner will be chosen based on who best fulfills the requirements of the brief and has the best design. As Jrogers says " The best design for the brief must win, not the best design skill." He says it so I know he means it but that is exactly why I don't understand why Carbofor won. Many of us think that sometimes the art wins not the design, which seems to be the case here according to the comments. If the community votes for the winner, often the pretty one will beat the best design based mostly upon visual presentation. I feel safe in saying that if some new designer had the perfect design for the brief but couldn't render that good that they will never win. Why? We like pretty things, thats why. Plus the voting scale is flawed. If I look at Carbofor's design and am asked to vote 1-5 on a must have scale, I will give him a 5. If it the scale asked "How well does this meet the brief requirements?", or in this case "How Future Detroit is this vehicle?" my thought process would be different and I would vote differently with a lower score. If I were to take all the entries around to the people on the streets of Detroit and ask "which do you like the best?" and "which feels like the future of Detroit?" I would get two different answers and sorry Carbofor, you wouldn't win the last one. When I found this site I was under the impression that the LM staff picks the winners. In the competition guidelines it says "The winning entry for each competition period will be selected by Local Motors, in its sole discretion, and the decisions of Local Motors are final. In selecting the winning entry, Local Motors will take into consideration ratings and comments provided by its website users in connection with the Designs." so do we vote and they pick? Key phrase being Consideration to ratings and comments. I would like it if it were that way, it would be more balanced. It doesn't seem to be. We all get an email saying to vote because the entries with the highest scores will win. That implies that we vote and we pick. So which is it? If it is the latter this site will become an art contest with the winners always being the same group of people. I go to the Detroit auto show every year and I remember Pontiac was asking the public to fill out forms to see if they should build the Aztec. Everyone gave a big yes, but we see how that turned out. We the voters are not all qualified to make good votes on good design and many of us have slanted opinions of what is good, like how some hate American styling like Bently Boy does. Some winners could never be realistically built. "Local Motors will also consider, among other things: (i) feasibility of the Design and/or whether it is buildable and (ii) marketability." So why do some win? Some designs are great, but will be to hard to meet real life requirements, like safety and whatnot. The voters may pick them but LM should make the final decisions based MOST IMPORTANTLY UPON THE BRIEF. Change the Scale from "must have" to "How well does it meet the Brief" I get the fun of voting and we should all have input but LM should look at the brief, the requirements, our comments and scores and make their decisions. Maybe even ask the people (non designers) in the city for which the contest is for and ask them what they feel best suits them. For the long term future this can't be highest vote score wins. Some designers may have alot of friends on here who only vote for each other. Votes and scores should be for influence only not for actually choosing the winners. It leaves to much open to controversy. We know that this is a work in progress and that the fine staff at LM are working hard to make this site fun and exciting and more than just an art contest. Good job! Carbofor, keep up the great work we are in awe! Ari, thanks and I agree with you. Good luck. Lm Staff could you put this somewhere where it gets people's attention or direct people to read all this as it is something that many think we should talk about and resolve and we as a community and you as a company need everyones input. Thanks again for the great site.

LMAO...detroit444...I think YOU nailed it, very perceptive comments...it IS a FACT that LM comps DO NOT really reflect ANY possible build project, save for the RF,...Because many of the members here, In spite of JRodgers comments, just Don't "get it"...Ya cannot build some "fantasy dream car" & expect to sell it to "Joe the Plumber"...it is Not gonna happen...he is gonna go buy a Chevy Van...end of story. IF LM REALLY wants to "compete" ....& that IS what they Are Portending to do, then WE as Designers HAVE to give them something to work with, besides great "Ideas"...!!! Unfortunately, that is most of what I see here, Not Applicable Solutions, Nice stuff design wise, but impractical. Oh, Yeah it would be wonderful IF the designs here were actually BUILT,...many of them are AWESOME...BUT,...do YOU really think TOYOTA is gonna give us a "break" because we are so "creative" ??? NOT Gonna Happen,...Nor is GM, they are In a WAR !!!...& people ARE losing their homes, jobs & any chance of an income !!!...I think the DETROIT Comp missed the ENTIRE POINT here...oh,yeah we got a "hot little van" ....uhm....the HHR & PT beat ya to it long ago !!!...& that was NOT good enough either. I think we should REDO the Detroit Comp, ....Open End,...Any Realistic Product that COULD really solve DETRIOT's IMAGE & lack of domestic sales (as the foreign sales account for 60% of USA autos !!!) & that MEANS a simple 4 door sedan compact car...a better "corrola" !!!!....IF LM built something like that, which was actually real....Jeez !!! NOW you would have something to take notice of !!!!....the best offering along those lines is the Chevy VOLT, look at it compared to the Pirius,...there is NO question which one YOU would CHOOSE to own...The VOLT Rocks,...But It is NOT here yet !!!...so there lies the opportunity of LM , IMO.

Couple things u may or may have not been aware of on the voting issue, is there is a user credibility or user weight system in place already for the voting system. i am not privy to know exactly how the weight is assigned, but i can assure you the top designers and LM staff probably hold the aces in such regard. also with this issue, as i have already proposed for other competitions, i think the voting should be split into 5 or so catagories, example, aesthetics, presentation, function, render quality, etc etc. in a 1-5 manner as we do now. i personally think that IF this design where to be put into a build entry and LM as a community took a crack at fullfilling the Detroit requirements on look and function etc, you might see this evolve a bit differently and become more of what you say it should be, less euro, more detroit. and yet again, just because this has become a winning entry DOES NOT guarantee it will be built. as i mentioned before, any design submitted to LM has the potential of being the next LM car. let the history show that LM understands the direction of their brand, and if they love to look at this car, HOWEVER they dont feel the spirit of what they want for detroit is diplayed, they have 50+ more ideas to choose from and develop into exactly what detroit needs. i also agree with bentley that Aurel deserves mention as he was over and average vote of 4.00 which no other entry did. so in that regard and i all fairness, possibly even hamsterroids could be trolling streets of the Big D, who knows. I agree the voting system may be a bit overgeneralized and as the previous results have shown tend to focus on what entry looks the best and not always the best design fitting the breif. I would also concur that someone like myself with moderate to mediocre rendering skills probably wont win one of these competitions even though us medium skilled designers have excellent and solid ideas for the breif. our ideas as a community will be noticed regardless of render quality, and once a concept is chosen for build entry, we still have a voice by helping the concept develop and evolve. they are expirementing with many different ideas for the competitions to fullfill each individual cities' needs. LM is all about evolution, even here on the website studio.

Oh, BTW...I gave this design a 5 !!!!...OK. It is GOOD, just not what was NEEDED for Detroit.

Nemo , Hmmm, ...good points, I think however that LM has a real opportunity IF they FOCUS in on the fact that cars are NOT "LOCAL" !!!...lol...one design is ALL you need. One GREAT REALISTIC DESIGN. It could come from the "worst " drawing you ever saw, but it would work !!!

Wow. What a dialog. Maybe we could do a weighted scoring system, where the LM Team chooses what weighted ranking the design will receive based on its fulfillment of requirements, and then the community could be invited to vote. Under these circumstances, it won't just be the "coolest" design that wins, but a relevant one. (In my opinion, this design is a beauty, and I am always swayed toward that, no matter the parameters, as I think most of the community is.) A hypothetical situation though would be two closely scored designs, in which in the community vote, the "cooler" less relevant design gets a blue ribbon, but because of the LM Team's weighted scale, the more relevant good design edges out the design that is just plain "cool". the balance here, is that if the "cool" design ran away with all the votes, it would still win, despite weighting, meaning the community rule could still prevail. Just an idea.

Hey ...LOOK at This "target" market...Do YOU see any DETROIT AUTO WORKERS listed there ????....NO. Artists, painters, women ,,,uh,....where are the guys who do not give a F^^^ , & just wanna get PAID on Friday ???...THAT IS the market.

Therein lies the "problem"...it looks great, makes sense to us "creative" types, BUT not ONE Detroit Worker would buy it. They do not Ride Bicycles...they Haul Shit, tow stuff, & want a BIG ASS bad Boy TRUCK.

...Further More...& I will stop my commentary here, ...MOST OF AMERICA WANTS A BAD ASS BIG BOY TRUCK !!!!...THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE PRICE OF GAS...THE KIDS CAN STARVE !!!... GO F'THEM, "I MAKE THE MONEY"...I WILL SPEND IT TOO...ON MY TRUCK. Ford Knows this quite well, the # 1 selling vehicle in the Entire WORLD is the Ford F 150 !!!!....uh, am I getting the message across ?

...so, (honest last post)...The NEXT LM COMP : THE PICKUP TRUCK. I attempted to do this with my Detroit entry, but...I was late in posting so it did not make it, but it would NOT have mattered, it was too DETROIT !!!...lol.

To NemoDesigns. I totally agree that LM has a great thing here and it is all about the evolution of a design over many phases using many designers inputs. This is the great thing about this site. My issue is not with that, it is with what fits the brief the best and who decides who wins and how to make that process more balanced or fair. Yes the vote is general and many gave Carfofors fives that is why I think that the "scale" should be base upon how well it fits the brief not if I must have it. Your ideas will help refine that question. I would hope that someone who may not draw the best but who has the best idea could have a "pro" see though that and help them out. With LM's new Aviary this can be a reality and is really a great idea. It would make their final design that much better and get people to interact much more this would also help in voting as you may be involved in someone elses project. To Stingray yes I feel the target was missed also. Remember alot of these auto workers are out of jobs now and soon many more mechanics and dealers will be as well. Many may take the opportunity to start new business in the area. They will want a vehicle that they feel is apart of them and their history while still being new and moving toward the future. That was the whole point right. The vote scores will be different based upon what you ask us to vote on therefore changing the winner. That needs to be refined.

OK...I lied...one more comment to JRodgers post :"We must break free of the sluggish design language that has imprisoned the car industry and allow people to feel proud to like what appeals to their heart."...Jay, THIS is NOT it. Japan has "imprisoned" America in the brainwashing of Design looks, on purpose, there was a conference last month to further the "Asian Design Look":...to evolve a "unique" style !!!...wait, most of the Asian designs are "copycat" looks of USA & European Auto Companies !!!...???....IF you Really want to do something Positive with LM, Stand UP...Stand Apart...refuse to "follow" the BS trends,...because the people who buy cars & trucks for the most part do NOT give a crap what it LOOKS like, as long as it works.

You guys bring up excellent points. R/Evo has been suggesting we revisit the current scoring system, and it is obviously time to do so. Shall we plan a live chat for Monday or Tuesday? Let's say around 6pm est (-4 UTC)? Who can be there? Let's schedule this at a time when most of you can be present. 2.) There is a lot of talk about "what LM" is doing. Please know that without a community, without local input and creatives from around the world, there would not be a LM. This is about what WE are doing - and how WE want to design and choose which cars are brought to market in each regions. For the live chat, let us consider how we can improve the voting system so that we can more accurately choose which designs we want to be brought to LIFE, developed and built for specific regions. Post your availability for Monday & Tuesday!!!!

Stingray, some of us do ride bikes and don't want to tell our kids to F,,off and yes we do care about the cost of gas. We want to be competitive and make a come back by moving in new directions while not losing our identity. Many of us here feel that designers at the big 3 have been just been copying import styles for the last 35 years. Why buy a toyota copy when you can just buy the toyota? The Ford 500 didn't fail because they didn't call it Tauraus anymore. It is because it was designed by a former euro designer and based on a Volvo. That blend was bland and didn't evoke the history of the origional 500 or fit in with the rest of the ford line. If it looks like a volvo or audi why not buy just buy the volvo or audi. That is what people did. We still did buy them here in Dtown because we made them, but we lost it because everyone else just bought the imports. We need our identity back. That is why the hot cars in Detroit are the Dodge ram, Challenger, Charger, Ford f100 and Mustang. These are the essance of the place but they will not be the future if they stay too retro. They have to move to new influences but keep it fresh and appeal to everyone, not just one group. The American identity needs to be renewed. That is what got me excited about this site and this competion. This is all off topic alittle but what the heck. No we don't all want trucks. And Stingray, tone down the language if you want to be taken seriously as a professional opinion. No offense. Like your Chevelle ideas BTW.

Ari, would love to do it. Hard for me to nail a time as I work utill the work is done. Monday or Tuesday, but for me I will most likely need it to be around 6:30. I will let you all decide when is good for you and try to fit into that if so needed.

To all of the commenters, Detroit444, Stingray,Nemo, Ra, Filski, etc. Thank you for speaking up. I joined Local Motors back in September and was ecstatic that a company like this existed, and gave people like me the chance to participate in these really creative venues and design competitions. I participated in both the Manhatten and Hawaii motors competitions, and when the Podium was announced for both competitions, I was confused why some people had won. There have been several designs that did not meet the design brief, and that seemed to be chosen for the quality of rendering, and not necessarily the idea, feasability, legality, etc. I stepped away from the competitions after that and decided to observe what made the cut, trying to figure out why some designs were winning. I was confused by who was chosing the winners. I basically concluded that as a budding company, LM was choosing what looked good because it would be a powerful marketing tool. But I've spoken with JRodgers and Ariel and they are good people, and I did not want to admit that there was fudging going on, or even beleive it was so. I've been really really puzzled, and I wanted to speak up, but I thought that I may be the only one who was puzzled, or that people would think I was envious 'cause my design didn't win or something like that. This was not at all the case. As someone who has been educated to follow protocall, as a business owner who has multiple clients, I am someone who is consistently trying to follow the demands of others, to fulfill the design brief, to create an end product that works. The winner of detroit has a stunningly beautiful design. No one disagrees. But it seems there are several people who agree it doesn't fit the design brief. I remember JRogers commenting to someone "where are you going to put the Harley on the weekend" or something to that effect... and the representative image of the Detroit competition was of a small van-- like that of a modernized '70's doge. So this pushed a lot of entrants to come up with a styled van like Vehicle. I am not from Detroit, so I contacted some friends-engineers at GM-- to ask them what they would want... and both of them said one box designs, power, towing, cargo, environmentally friendly (hybrid) etc. So when 2 out of the 3 winners share have little to do with the design brief, or comments like "how will you haul a motorbike" I am very lost. And now that members are speaking up, I felt it a good time to voice my concern, and try to be productive in helping LM evolve, because I believe in this company, and want to do whatever I can to help make it better.

To make Local Motors Better, I agree that we need a different voting system. However I want to bring up something that I think could change the way Local Motors and these competitions work. The point of Local Motors has been to democratize design, to take advantage of the pool of talented individuals who want to be part of a design community and work together to create innovative vehicles. It is to embrace in a way "open source" design. But the way it currently works, as has been pointed out, has several flaws. The first question that needs to be addressed is "what is a designer?" There are designers who are incredibly good renderers, but who don't necessarily have new or innovative ideas. Then there are designers who are constantly thinking outside of the box, who have good ideas, but who struggle to articulate them through rendering. So they come to these competitions, but are rarely noticed. Design is usually dealt with in teams of people. Yet currently, the LM community is made up of a bunch of individuals, and there is little teamwork going on other than what is happening up at LM headquarters. What I am suggesting is a tiered, or multi-level competitions system, to allow everyone to be noticed. Entries that would win based on the concept, not necessarily the rendering. Then, when the concept is chosen, the renderers can come in, and make it look brilliant. Or a beautiful vehicle is designed, but requires a bit of innovation for cargo placement, or battery placement... the more engineering oriented designers can take a whack with these. It will give everyone in the LM community the opportunity to take advantage of their fortés, while pushing everyone at the same time to address their areas of weakness.... the renderers would see what ideas could be applied to their designs, the concepters could see how to render their ideas more effectively.... Community members would feel more involved, and voting, i believe, would be more fair... because the renderers would be voting on concepts they would want to advance, and the engineering minded designers would vote on designers they would want to work on making more feasible... This is just a suggestion, but I agree that this entire discourse, needs to be moved into some kind of forum for LM community members.

I would love to be a part of the live chat. Anytime tuesday or later works for me as I Graduate monday...

To idesigncars, you got what I have been trying to get at from the begining. I love your tier/teamwork idea and belive that this is what LM is trying to do but it somehow got off track alittle bit. May be sketch competions should be line drawings only. The biggest issue I had and that many others, including past winner Filski, is that there seems to be a difference between who wins by fitting the brief the best and who wins overall because of other voting reasons. What those reasons are and how to improve them is what this discussion is about. Like you I put alot of research into my thought process and eventhough I did not meet all those requirements in my entry I was dissapointed when those who did are bested by one who did not. I felt like not entering anymore too, not because I lost but because I felt the vote system was flawed or inaccurate so I decided to question it. I like what you have to say about it and hope you can join the live chat. Congrats on your graduation!!!

@idesigncars, a little clarification is needed. So far the community has voted and chosen every winner; there has been no need for "fudging" of any sort. The "points" system Nemo referred to is not a way for LM to choose the winners, but it is a way to make sure ppl are not creating multiple accounts to vote themselves "up" and vote others "down". Very cut and dry so far: The community has chosen EVERY winner. That being said, it is time for some refinement and I like the ideas here very, very much. On top of being excellent ways for us to grow and move forward, I love that you guys are taking ownership; this is necessary for LM to work. Do you think the flaws in the voting system are based on the fact that the winning designs may not adhere to the comp guidelines, or that as local Detroiters (or hawaiians, floridians, what have you) car lovers the winning designs do not reflect your desires?

idesign, congrats on your graduation!!!

So far, Tuesday at 6:30pm (est, -4 UTC) seems to be the best time for a live chat. It will be hard for everyone to be there since we are scattered around the world! Please try to be there. We can schedule this for later in the day on Tuesday if that's better - please confirm!

Fantastic dialogue. Many points to consider and I (we) thank you for all of your time and well-considered opinions. I know that it takes time to write all these things out, and I am grateful that you have because it shows that you care for the community. Here are some individual responses, as it seems that is what many have asked for (please forgive me if I do not directly address your point or question, I will do my best and also try to be concise):
-Carbofos, I regret that this debate has settled in your entry, as we have a plan for separate discussion forums on the site, but we simply have not had time to execute that plan. On the positive side, however, to have had your entry cause such debate is a good sign as we at LM believe that the opposite of positivity is not negativity, but apathy, and that you have certainly avoided.
-The very point of LM is such openness and discourse. idesigncars aptly pointed out that that is why he joined LM and that is what we always strive for. We however try but cannot make the community comment. I am sorry to see that detroitt444, stingraystudios, and idesigncars did not make a comment on this design while it was in the running. Your input does count. IT COUNTS ALOT. But if you don't comment then others cannot be influenced. Who knows what would have happened if this discourse had happened prior to the end of voting. We will never know, but we can learn.
-I know that everyone is busy and it is difficult to comment on everything especially when you might not even think that something out of your idea of a winner would win. Perhaps it would have helped too if we displayed voting results as soon as entries started. This would help generate interest and comments but might also serve to discourage debate on those designs which "are too low to have a chance at winning". This is something though that we must have a look at and we will.
-We have a voting system which manages for the "best" community participation. It is described in #7 of the FAQs and it deliberately controls for a number of factors not the least if which are in the following limited list:
"a buyer of an LM vehicle or product,
a user who is "local" to the competition region,
a dedicated commenter/critiquer, and
a visitor to a physical LM location"
These factors show that we have done our best to control for the real life factors that stingraystudios and detroit444 so aptly point out, matter so much. If you care, we care, the community cares and your vote counts MORE.
-We wanted voting to be simple so we provided a single scale 0-5. We intended that each voter would take ALL factors into account when voting. For example, a 5 would mean that the voter loved the design and felt that it met the brief completely; a 0 that it did neither, and a 3 that it was somewhere in between on average. The comments in the comment area were meant to shed light on the nuances of those average votes. This discourse makes it clear that some people would like the vote to be clarified. Great point, and lets discuss this in the live chat Tuesday 6pm EST (-5UTC). We are responsive and we will work to improve, guaranteed.
-Detroit444 points out that we have made it clear that LM selects the winner in its sole discretion. That is true, but that is meant to reserve the right for the company to override the community vote in the case that fraudulent activity is detected beyond what our computer algorithm can handle, or in the case that offensive material is used in the design with the highest score. We never intended, nor will we start now, invoking that clause to choose designs that we think are "better" than others. WE HAVE YET TO INVOKE THAT CLAUSE AND THE COMMUNITY HAS ALWAYS HAD THE FINAL SAY.
-We are working hard to build our first vehicle and make a new American car company. I am intensely patriotic (like most all of you are about your country) and I want to see an American Company succeed selling great cars. I think that in this country especially, we spend too much time, tearing down each other instead of working to make each other better. I gave everything but my last full measure for my country for 7 years as a Marine in the infantry, and many of my friends did not return home. I started this company in response to many of the ills of our global automotive economy and we are not only going to succeed but we are going to be hugely successful in large part due to our community approach. LM is a shining example which stands against the tide of broken business models, and we will reward effort and discourse and shun apathy and intolerance. What we need now is discourse, fans, critics, customers, drivers, designers, builders, and engineers. Our community may be small and somewhat overweighted in its makeup right now but it is growing daily, and when we start selling our first cars, we believe that the number of real customers will begin to balance the weight of others.
-I look forward to seeing everyone in the live chat. Please come if you care to have a hand in debating these issues. If you cannot make it we will host a second one. Again thank you for your time, and Carbofos congratulations on such a thought-provoking entry.

WTF! This is one whale of a thread! I have nothing to say except that, for the record, my enthusiastic ranting for the Bullet had nothing to do w/ the big D - I just love the Bullet as a standalone design, regardless of it local premise (though its European heritage is a big +). Ciao!

Well said. Yes I too regret that this is being dicussed on Carbofor's winning page. You deserve all the credit and recognition for your design. I want to make clear that I do not want my comments to be taken as an attack on Carbofor or LM. I agree that all comments should be positive (i have tried to do that, Stingray your on your own in regards to that) I know that we all want you to succeed with this and I wish you both the best. Thanks for your service. I too have many of my friends and relatives that are back overthere again so I know how we do need to stick together rather than tear eachother down. I hope my comments are not seen as tearing others down. I think you should pick the winners not us. Use our votes to help inform your decision or refine the process. See you in the live chat! Thanks for the opportunity and good luck, what you have here is the future.

Ari said, "Do you think the flaws in the voting system are based on the fact that the winning designs may not adhere to the comp guidelines"....I say yes this seems to be the major issue. NOT always just sometimes. Ari also said, "or that as local Detroiters (or hawaiians, floridians, what have you) car lovers the winning designs do not reflect your desires?"..... It is this too, but secondary. As we all vote we can blame our selves if it doesn't fit. But what started this whole thing off was Hawaii looks like Hawaii, Miami like Miami and so on. Detroit not so much. Yes people should take all aspects into account when voting, they don't. They go for glamor and renderability. Does it fit the brief?... brings us back to question one. If the winner of the airbase competition had nothing that showed its aircraft heritage but won, would there be dissapointment? Yes because it didn't follow the brief. I will stop now utill the live chat to give you all a break from me.

Ari, to clarify, I was not trying to insinuate in any way that things were being fudged, and I'm sorry if it came off that way. I am glad to know that the community has chose every winner. I want to make it clear that I really hoped that nothing other than the community votes chose the winner... like I said, I have spoken with you and Jay, and you are great people who are honest and want to run an honest business... I trust you, your judgment, and listen to what you say, and enjoy your helpful critiques, and comments. You seem only to want to help and make this a better company, and I do too. So I am really glad to be able to say that I trust you 100%. But to answer your questions, I think the voting system is not accurate enough. In other design competitions, like the michellin challenge, or the Interior Motives Awards, there are multiple categories and criteria for the winners. The Argus Awards, and also way back when CarDesignNews had a competition, there were multiple criteria, and multiple winners for each criteria, for example: Best Design, Most ecological design, Best futuristic design, etc. I think either the competition and winning structures need to be different, or the voting system needs to be different. Here is what I mean. The competition briefs could be structured in ways that that suggest different criteria for the competition: Best Looking Vehicle. Most Feasible Design. Most Innovative design. Most Ecological/ Environmentally Friendly/Green Design, And Best design for the particular locale. So instead of 3 designs that win based on an arbitrary voting system, that as people have pointed out, could be skewed if they have a lot of friends or something, there would be 5 designs that would be chosen based on particular, well defined criteria. Best looking would be like the "Gotta have it...it evokes an emotion in me and I cannot describe it... it just looks great" whereas Most Innovative would have criteria like " Within the design, sketches or description, the designer has solved a problem or integrated a system in an intelligent manner that is innovative-- the designer has thought outside the box to solve a complex problem..etc." and son on and so forth with the criteria. Then the community would have something to judge with, a guideline if you will. This turns it into a more studio environment, which I think is appropriate for Local Motors. You already have the "Wall". In the professional design environment, you get a design brief, and you have a week or so to work on this brief. Then you take your work and put it up on the wall, and the project managers and design chiefs go and look at what is on the wall, and a discourse between all of the designers is opened up, and there is a process of elimination, and a vote. Then a certain number of designs are chosen-- lets say 5, and the designers are told to go back and rework these 5 designs, and the process repeats itself until the ultimate design wins. Local motors already kind of has this going in build-- that is what happened with the rally fighter and what happens with sketch-overs. So I think there could be, as I suggested before a two tier competition-- the initial 5 are chosen, then designers are asked to make it even better, and this is narrowed down to one or 2 or 3 designs based on solid criteria for voting. So this is one way we could make competitions better. The other is to use a different scoring system, again based on solid criteria, similar to what I mentioned, except that instead of choosing a car for each category, the overall scores from each criteria category would be combined into one score, and these scores would determine the winner. So an example: You have categories similar to what I listed above : Innovative design, Green Design, Best looking, Feasibility, and Best for the Locale.-- and you would have a 1-5 rating for each of these Categories for example. In the voting process, a community member would look at a design and figure "well that looks good, but not my favorite looking, so I'll give it a 3, it's super innovative so it gets a 5, doesn't mention anything about the environment, so it gets a 1, could totally be built today with a few minor tweaks, so a 4, and it doesn't really fit the local so a 2..." then the score, in this case the average overall score would be a 3, and that would be what determined the score of the vehicle. While it still might seem a bit odd, at least there is a grounding for the voting... it is not just what people feel like giving the vehicle. Of course people could still give the vehicle that looks the best all 5's.. but if there was a small graph at the end of the competition that showed what each vehicle scored in each category, it would be a very good way to see how the community is judging, and if that kind of score system works. As for what Detroit444 said, I really like the suggestion of the sketch competition really being about sketching, and the possibility of having design process competitions... so a sketch competition is sketch/ line drawing only, then there is a rendering comp, then maybe a modeling comp, etc. I know this may kill creativity for some, but for some it give them the opportunity to win using their stronger abilities-- it provides a range of winners... and this is another way the "studio" environment could work... So these are some of my suggestions. I know this may seem long winded, but there is a lot to cover and I wanted to be as clear as I could be. I look forward to being there Tuesday, and getting back involved with Local as much as possible from here on out.

Man, my first "car" was a "bad ass big boy truck" (Sting - that is too funny!), a Dodge quad cab (sometimes affectionately known as "Big Blue") that definitely had the muscle and the off-road capability --- BUT, it's driver experience (as in quality and performance) was zero compared to the hero of the car I have now, a Mini Cooper S. Sure, the Coop' is European, and its BMW (say whatever you want to say about BMW loyalists), but I rest assured that it can smoke any one of the "bad ass big boy trucks" that try to flex on me in traffic just because the guy diving them has insecurity issues and needs to make up for it by rolling his huge 4x4 over every European and Asian sportscar on the highway.

Personally, if the LM staff were to cast the final vote rather than the LM community, than the whole point of LM would be lost. The community should vote, and only them, but do so through the multi-category system that Nemo proposed.

OK I had say one more thing because "idesigncars" could have the answer to the problem. @idesigncars. That long comment of yours sounds like a great system. Nemo and R/Evo talked about it and you defined it. I was thinking of a similar system that asks non artistic things like "How does it complete the brief" and the like. At first I thought we should narrow it down with our votes and LM should pick the final, kind of like in school where LM acts as the teacher and final voice. This is because the current system is too open to strange voting patterns. I agree it should be the community to make the final decision but I didnt see how to make it legit. It is all about the community so as for your idea, it works on many levels in regards to judging and address all my issues. I love your catagories and think the "best for locale" catagory is just what we need. It can still use the current 1-5 system but in new ways, like you said. Your five catagories are perfect, they cover all the aspects of design, I would not change any of them. This gives more context for judging, makes it a flatter playing field, provides feedback about how it was judged, provides boundries for judging, makes it more school/studio like and when the 5 scores are combined into a final score, we all just picked the winners. Then they can be further refined with more competitions. I am so glad you chose to speak up you laid it out in a way that was so clear, this should make everyone happy. I KNOW I AM, I am very excited about this. LM, LETS DO THIS!!!!! I like the graph thing too. Thanks to Jrogers for letting us run with this and for listening, this is his baby after all.

You know, while the voting system conversation is one to continue, the debate over the cred of Carbofos's win could all be settled if we all realized who actually won this competition: Aurel and his "Hamsteroids" entry. Aurel recieved the highest vote @ + 4.00, and did so w/ a vehicle that met the brief to a T w/ ingenuity and humor. Straight fact - the real winner accomplished everything you all here have debated if Carbofos did. I don't say this as disrespect to Carbofos - it's just that he was plain lucky to get his because Aurel was exempt as an LM staff designer - otherwise the real winner settled this entire thread of argument when he showed us all that hamsters, and Detroit, rule. So, on that note - can LM as a community, and LM as a corp. staff -- while he's technically not on the podium, but democratically and soulfully on the podium anyway - show some love to Aurel for truly creating the best design for the Detroit competition!!! Seriously!

Carbofos, I know you are probably getting tired of getting e-mails every 10 minutes about how to re-build the scoring system and all of that. So I wanted to speak to you personally in this comment. I honestly think that you have the winning design because Local Motors is about building a community of Car designers. What has happened over this weekend has been a result of you creating an amazing, beautiful, stunning design, being part of the community, and participating in Local Motors. Your win, launched a very important discussion that Local Motors and the community needs to have. But it did something else... it brought people like myself, Detroit444 back into the community, and got us excited about design. Your rendering technique is truly inspirational and almost magical. But the effect of your design goes beyond that--- it brought a community back together and made it tighter and closer than ever. So in my opinion, you and your design are a true winner, because I think knowing that your win launched a pivotal conversation within the Local Motors is better than any monetary prize that could be offered. So I wanted to personally congratulate you on your win. Your work is excellent and truly inspirational. I am already trying to dissect your technique! Keep up the great work, I want to see more! Take care, and Thanks so much again! Congrats!

phew! i took soo long reading the comments that i reloaded the page just in case anyone had added in more :-P first of all, @carbofos, sorry to be another irritating person in this thread, hope you dont spam me :-P, @ari, damn, 6pm EST is like 6am in malaysia, the day after hahaha! looks like i'll have to miss the live chat and voice out my opinions on this issue over here... again sorry to carbofos about that. anyways, i think that a multiple set of voting categories is a wonderful idea! if asked my opinion, i feel that solely restricting the voting to the staff at LM alone would defy the characteristics which have made LM what it is today(i agree with bentley boy), from just a year of conception. i myself joined into this site and have relied heavily on feedback to improve my drawings, and i myself feel i've improved on my sketching in a waaaay faster rate than i've ever done before i entered this site. so kudos to the community for that. in reference to this design, i loved this car! i myself rated a 5. of course, i've rated several entries with a 5, but based on different characteristics. i rated this a 5 based on presentation. ive rated some based on form uniqueness, others on the sheer ingenuity of ideas, and of course, some based on the guidelines. i tried my best to follow the guidelines so i know that this car does feel a little out of place at this topic. i, as an indian who has travelled upto australia and never went north of bombay, have no real right to state if this car belongs to detroit or not, since i cant prove my point by myself. however, like detroit444, i trust his opinions and im quite inspired by his speeches, along with nemodesigns, sting, and idesigncars. i myself wasn't expecting this design to win.. maymay's design, among a few others, were actually the entries i was keeping my eye on, if i have to be honest! since i can't make it on tuesday, i shall giv my opinion here. i would LOVE the idea of incorporating the multiple category voting for each entry, and coining the best design for each. i understand that since this would involve multiple winners, there may be issues on distributing prizes whatnot. maybe each design winner in each category deserves some sort of commendment, while the grand winner would be someone with the highest average score over all categories... this would be, IMO, the best way to solve all these issues. @carbofos, congrats to your design.... hope that the frightening size of these threads dont scare you into declining participation in future competitions. to me i find it an honour to participate with highly qualified designers, internationally acclaimed design award- winners and automotive professionals! it always gives me pride to find out i even got a 2 out of 5 while fighting in the competitions! getting 37bad votes on my first ever design checkup in this site was the first wake up call to me to improve and do better! without your participation or most of the others, including detroit444, it would be sad as there is nobody to look up to. so lets keep the ball rolling eh! kudos to your first ever entry and your first ever win and probably the biggest thread of comments i've ever seen on this site! :-P

oh yea dude, since you havent made another comment in your own entry since, like, 11 days ago, i'd like to hear YOUR views on all this debate! :)

Live Chat: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/local-motors-community-chats Tuesday 5/19 at 6:30pm est (-4 GMT) - Sorry to those who will not be able to make it! Please try to be available.

Just one clarification on the time, it is 630pm EDaylightTime which is 4 hours earlier than UTC (or GMT). Hope to see as many of as possible. The U-Stream link seems to have a timezone issue and will only display the time in PDT which would be 1530 PDT. Look forward to seeing you all.

I will start off by congratulating everyone who entered this Detroit competition, there were many beautifully rendered, and also many immaculately designeed vehicles. That being said, i can now move on with what this comment is mainly about, THE PREVIOUS COMMENTS... Especially the ones by Detroit444, Nemo, Ra Filski. My interest in the Local Motors website greatly plunged due to two reasons... 1) I didnt join this competition because i was called in early the day the entries were due, to make a long story short, i was not able to complete my design the Detroit Galor, but i do plan on posting it in my portfolio as soon as i get it finished. 2) After looking at the beautifully composed renderings i was greatly discouraged due to the fact that the only thing i was going to bring to the table were pencil and pen renderings, i had to rely mostly on my writing skill not drawing skill to accurately convey the ideas and images in my head. Confidence from when i first read about the Detroit competition and Local Motors (on the carbodydesign website) decreased when i started voting, and when i saw the winner today, My first thought was i really didnt stand a chance at all, a statement thet is extremely contrdictory to my first thought when i read the design brief, however, when i read the comments by the forementioned members, my interest and confidence in this website were greatly invigorated. Unfortunately, i will be working all day on Tuesday, but i will check the U-Strem link to see what progress was made that day.

For the start, congratulations for the winners and to those who started this debate :-). I think there are several problems and I will try to put that in points because I do not want to write very much. 1 - The democratic voting system does not guarantee that the vote is tracking the brief , the vote are from the hard "I like this design even if it not follows the theme , I like the image , the design – independet from the theme , etc.. “ 2- Possibility of comments with your name id ( only for the competition ) , if you do someone a derogatory comment ( you do not agree with a solution ..or with the interpretation of the theme) it is possible that the person to take that like some personal affront and for that reason it is possible that he will not think ..this person is not agree with my solution , but if his solution is ok ,I will give him a 4 , for example , this person is against me , and I will give him 1 poit , for example. I understand that for the LM and also for us , is very important to have a very active community , projects , constructive comments , debates etc.. I’m convinced that the LM does not want to build every win projects , they want a free site , and a free competition for the design interpretation without any restriction . There are also strange thinks , for example J , Aurel VAN – Hamsteroids , it is a great project , and I think he worth the score , you will say ..so the democratic vote system works ! ..it works , but it works because moust of them knew that he is an LM designer ( and a very good one , I repeat , a strongly believe that his project is very , very good , shape and brief interpretation . ) because otherwise , it is very possible that many of the people that vote this project , preferred some kinde of Ferrari shape for example . So ..what can be change ..offcourse , is the LM 100% right to maintain the current format of the competition ,and also , there are designers , that with the currend system succeeded from several times , because they are very good , and they have that talent , experience , to combine the brief guidelines with the democratic wishes of the members on this site – community , Mihai Panaitescu is the main example of this kinde of case . So , again ..what can be change : The voting system , let’s say for example ..from the total average of the points , 50% to be the community points , and the rest of 50% to be the LM jury points – so at least , 50% we are shure that are poits give also for the brief interpretation , wrong or good interpretation . The entry can be put on the site with a code number , without names ( is true that system remove the Checkup system for the concept made for the competitions ) The competition chat can be with id members name if the entryes are with the code number system . At the final , we do must not forget that first of all , nobody forces us to enter in the competition , it is 100% pure pleasure to draw cars , and to make that for a competition is a great and very nice challenge . For that reason , me for example , I wish only to have time for this competitions , regardless of the scoring system or rules of competition . P.S. I write much ..sorry :-P

Woooooooooow. Amazing dialog. let me get into this one 4 real. First of all i have to say Congratulations Dymtro on a wonderful design entry. I believe the best designs the world has to offer usually kick off the hottest debates in this industry. So i have to say it again great job to Dymtro. Everyone has come in with valid statements of how they feel the voting should or has been carried out. At the end of the day LM is the company building a brand based upon their international communities input. Am glad they are open to dialog as exhibited in this fabulous post. Hi 5 to detroit444 and FILSKI for raising their concerns, but have to say i agree with jrogers take on the issue. Thats my 50cents for now. Congrats once again Carbofos.

If your ego isnt going to explode out of your head finish reading this.......Id like to say this is my favorite design so far on Local Motors. Great Job!

click to enlarge