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Detroit Muscle Car
5 hours ago Aracnid said:Something out of the '80's. Neither retro or modern enough.
doble bubble
5 hours ago Aracnid said:Sort of a merge of a Pontiac Solstice, Saturn Sky, and a Chrysler Copperhead concept car that they never put into production.
Detroit Muscle Car
5 hours ago judgemental541 said:lookig good sting :D, really seems to fit the muscle car title in this thread,
Detroit Muscle Car
5 hours ago idesigncars said:This checkup was approved on Sunday March 14th 2010 01:32:17 PM
Duesenberg Major Project
8 hours ago bezwick said:il put some renderings up and more pictures monday
ive got a busy weekend of essay work and girlfriend attention lol, glad to see some interest already 
Duesenberg Major Project
9 hours ago Cas said:Yeah! Great to see this! Would love to see some sketches or renderings too.
To Stingraysstudios
9 hours ago ely862me said:Thanks for ur comment! I try ,as everyone around, to do my best!
Cheers!
1st supercar in Romania
10 hours ago ely862me said:Braunarsch-thanks;i still need to have some real lights..i know i said i ll put them down in the scoops but i think it won t be a good position regarding rocks and dirt and i guess they re illegal to be that high .I ll try to make the actual ones more natural,they ll be somehow like the Pagani Zonda's one.
Judge-I somehow liked that face but i got negative feedback on it because it looked like a duck or humanoid,and yes i had the measures of some bmw lights there(i was allready thinking what lights to use :D).
NASCAR ideas
15 hours ago Stingraysstudios said:This IS a "paying job" opportunity...We are working out a budget for the entire project, in terms of the Build, Fabrication, Materials, Components, and the Media programming, Promotional expenses, Licensing fees, & all pertinent requirements to "execute" this concept successfully. I implore those of you here who "feel" that you can get into this, to do so ASAP, by contacting us or drop a email, PM or phone call to me as you wish, I am very interested in finding "talented artists & technicians" to work as a team on this project. THX !!! >>> Even If your NOT a NASCAR fan, it will not matter, as we have a place & a paycheck for the right people...& a few other "projects are in the works too...so hit me up !!! >>>
To Stingraysstudios
15 hours ago Stingraysstudios said:OH....I want to thank Ari for the Detroit Interview you did with me back in Nov '09 as I just posted it with a link to LM on my website's Guest book page so that visitors to oue site can learn a bit of BG on who stingraysstudios.com really are.
http://www.stingraysstudios.com/Guestbook.php
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
15 hours ago Stingraysstudios said:OK, i managed to burn the street up around my home with the A4, so allow me to address your comments;
So to conclude, that is what Local Motors is, and will be for the years to come. I have presented you with how we work, and how our process works. We are always open to new ideas, but so far this has worked. The Rally Fighter is a great success so far, and it is still only the beginning. We are always striving to improve our process, our tools, and our techniques.
^ cool, all good there.
But implementing a system like the one you have suggested simply does not make sense from my personal standpoint considering how Local Motors works. I don't see how it is sustainable, and I don't see why we are "obligated" to pay anyone who can pick up a pencil and piece of paper, scan their sketch, and post it on our site.
^ Not cool...see you DO have an obligation on an ethical base to "inspire" anyone who can sketch a design on paper....as THAT is exactly the development base for your future designs. MOST of the 4000 plus members here DO NOT participate in each competition....THAT is the same on EVERY such website, only a small % of active members Really "step up" and provide a reliable contribution, "par for the course".
Now to get more people involved takes "Motivation" & Fast, responsive interaction. Trust Me I have understood EXACTLY what it takes now to drive a "community" to participate in a Design Process...& you end up with a handful of Very Talented & dedicated persons who are doing this because as you pointed out...THEY LOVE IT. There are your Perfect Team Leaders !!! .....Now here we go to address the "problems" ;
:
Step 5: IF the interested party is a winner, then he/she receives generous compensation from Local Motors, a chance to have their design turned into reality, and the promotion from Local Motors. Local Motors buys the rights to use this design at that point.
^ OK, sounds good but...what "market value" are you setting your "compensation " on ???...If indeed a model Could Sell 2000 units over 10 years @ 30K each....uh,...that IS $60M bucks bro !!!...and your paying the DESIGNER what...10 grand !!!...NO. not equitable at all for an "open source" process to COMPETE in the Real World, you have to offer More than a "job" would net for the designer, you need to build a commitment & relationship with that Design Team which delivered for LM !!
Step 6: Local Motors design and engineering teams begin work on transforming winning designs into build-able, realistic products ( whether it be car, light bar, side vent etc..)
What !!!....Why ? Not without the Original Design Team "embedded" into the engineering process, to work as a community you need to stay on track with your designers to insure the BEST solution & mauntain the INTENT of the Original Design.
Step 7: Local Motors incorporates winning design into project plan, and begins work to make winning design real. This usually requires and entire re-design by the engineers and designers as most designs that are winners come in 2d rendering formats. Changing that into realistic 3D models and then rapid prototypes requires a lot of effort.
^ YES & that is EXACTLY WHY THE ORIGINAL DESIGN TEAM NEEDS TO BE "ONLINE" DURING THIS ENTIRE PROCESS !!!,,,& that is WHY you will pay them from the established Budget...to refine & define the Final Deliverable product. WHY would you "hand off" a winning design to be "engineered" into something other or even maybe less than what the combined contributions of the Designers created ???...your cutting off your nose in spite of your face in doing that AND you just Destroyed the ENTIRE "community process of design development as well, by cutting the designer OUT of the equation.
Step 8. Local Motors shows build process of winning designs, and shares information on how the parts will be manufactured and used with the community. Integrates feedback into the process.
^ OK that kinda offers a continuing contribution by the open source design criteria, but...you need specific results at this time in your development, and thet means you require Professional Work, in that it MUST be to your manufacture Specs....that IS a "work for hire" & may even offer patentable designs from the results !!!..so, HOW are you dealing with That ?...If I design a "body kit" for the RF, and sell it as MY product in the aftermarket, I own the DESIGN, but...it is based upon YOUR (LM) product, OK, so NOW do we have a 2 way "licensing agreement"...as that seems to me to be a requirement in order to be equitable to both parties,
Step 9. Local Motors makes actual product and works closely with original designer to make sure product is as close to the design that the original designer wanted.
Nice Words....Not actually realistic though as in most cases some degree of "Modification" is required & the solutions in terms of materials & or components utilized do effect the Final Result, design wise. and ... Therefore again LM is responsible to compensate the Designers for the entire process of "working closely" with LM to insure the design is what was "wanted"...!!!
Step 10: Local Motors begins to sell product, with signature badges of the various community designers who worked on varying aspects of the design. The Rally fighter for example will have Sangho's badge on the exterior, Mihai's badges on the interior, and Filski's badges on the light bar.
Stroke, stroke what a Joke...Pay Me. lol...yes it is very nice that your including a "deign badge" here & there, but WHAT are you REALLY doing to further the future of YOUR DESIGNERS ???...a percentage of the Gross / Net return over the life of the product IS pretty much a EXPECTED part of any Design Fee. How can you NOT justify or even pretend that this is NOT SUSTAINABLE !!!!...when LM income steam from 2000 models @ 30K each is SIXTY MILLION BUCKS !!! ...
Oh Please, ...Get Real & Pay the Man his Due !!!. TRY to sell that deal to Pininfarina or Italdesign, and cover your ass as they kick you out the door !!!
To Stingraysstudios
16 hours ago Stingraysstudios said:THX Greg...just call me MRMETAL & you can count on the fact I will always come from where you least expect, right in front of your face...lol !! BTW, I just test drove a 2010 A4 Quattro...& uh, my Pit Bull, MR.BLUE, was plastered to the rear window ! ...whooof !
Sketchbook
18 hours ago idesigncars said:This checkup was approved on Saturday March-th 2010 11:14:17 PM
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
23 hours ago Stingraysstudios said:Hang On, good comments &, uh,......I WILL get back to you on this....just at the moment, I just got an Audi A4 3.2 Quattro (red over gray) to go "test drive"...be back when the smoke clears !!! >>>>>
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
23 hours ago R/Evo said:Nyko, too bad your post about what happened wasn't sent out to all members or added to Ari's messages, as it was quite important. I totally forgot about the Blog and the link at the bottom. Maybe you need it move it to the top or have both locations.
Sorry, I still feel that member should be kicked out as I feel it was a serious misconduct on their part. Just hope that the member wasn't an 'old timer' and given special treatment. "If you don't want to face the time, don't do the crime!"
Duesenberg Major Project
23 hours ago KEKOEV said:im really liking this, that side view looks great! would love to see some sketches, thumbs up!
Duesenberg Major Project
1 days ago idesigncars said:Great start man! This takes a lot of work, and the clay is looking like it's laying on there pretty well! Do you have any renderings of this project?
Duesenberg Major Project
1 days ago idesigncars said:This checkup was approved on Saturday March-th 2010 06:05:50 PM
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago idesigncars said:R/Evo, we did do a blog post regarding what was determined in the last tinychat conversation: here is the link. but good call on the ethics. Basically we decided to not out the cheater, but the fact that the community is aware that there was a cheater is a pretty strong consequence to the actual cheater.
Here is the direct link to the blog post:
http://lmlife.local-motors.com/2010/03/tinychat-discussion-update.html
Hope that helps R/Evo
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago idesigncars said:The way Local Motors works is really quite simple, but I'll lay it out here very clearly so that I can at least answer my question regarding "what we are talking about".
Step one: Interested party becomes Local Motors Community member ( Designer, engineer, enthusiast, buyer, other)
Step Two: Interested party submits work ( Checkup, competiton, design process, portfolio, Glossary entry, Forum entry) It should be noted that the creator of any content posted on our site retains the rights to their content, and Local Motors will not use it without the express consent of that party.
Step 3: Party receives feedback, and has time to improve design.
Step 4: If a competition, Party has entry voted on, and can vote on other entries.
Step 5: IF the interested party is a winner, then he/she receives generous compensation from Local Motors, a chance to have their design turned into reality, and the promotion from Local Motors. Local Motors buys the rights to use this design at that point.
Step 6: Local Motors design and engineering teams begin work on transforming winning designs into build-able, realistic products ( whether it be car, light bar, side vent etc..)
Step 7: Local Motors incorporates winning design into project plan, and begins work to make winning design real. This usually requires and entire re-design by the engineers and designers as most designs that are winners come in 2d rendering formats. Changing that into realistic 3D models and then rapid prototypes requires a lot of effort.
Step 8. Local Motors shows build process of winning designs, and shares information on how the parts will be manufactured and used with the community. Integrates feedback into the process.
Step 9. Local Motors makes actual product and works closely with original designer to make sure product is as close to the design that the original designer wanted.
Step 10: Local Motors begins to sell product, with signature badges of the various community designers who worked on varying aspects of the design. The Rally fighter for example will have Sangho's badge on the exterior, Mihai's badges on the interior, and Filski's badges on the light bar.
That is how we work. Anyone is welcome to come, have fun, and try their hand at designing something that we could turn into a reality. If they win, and we decide to use their design, then we compensate them. If they don't win, but need money, they are more than welcome to take their designs to any other company and try to sell it to them. Or, they could begin manufacturing their designs and sell it to Local Motors vehicle owners.
One thing you might be interested in Stingray is the new Pro-Shop that will soon be part of the Rally Fighter Experience. Here anyone can download the open source data of the Rally Fighter, ( or in the future any other vehicle LM builds) and can design and build custom accessories for LM Vehicles. Then they can sell these parts/ accessories right through the Local Motors Pro Shop-- i.e. Local Motors will help these independent designers/ engineers/ builders sell their products right through our site!
So if you have ideas for accessories for LM vehicles Stingray, this is a great option for you. I feel that that is a fair, ethical way to work within the the Local Motors community, create products, and earn some cash. I mean after-all, these accessory suppliers will build the accessories, and will be able to make money off of them. And they could even tap the LM community in the development process.
You see, the fact is, is that our design community is made up of over 4500 passionate individuals who care and love design for what it is. They come here to learn, they come here to show, they come here to inspire, they come here to be inspired, and they come here to collaborate. They come here on their own, when they want. They can work as much as they want, and as little as they want. We provide them with an extensive platform and set of tools to collaborate, see work, share their work, and participate in the creative process. No community member is required to do anything, other than every once in a while meet the requirements for a competition entry if they choose to enter. There is nothing un-ethical about this model. The fact that the designers keep the rights to their work that they voluntarily submit to our website is almost unheard of on the internet. YOu know that facebook has a clause to be able to use any photo you submit to their website?! We don't do that. And if we like something, we pay for it. We are fully transparent, and completely open.
So to conclude, that is what Local Motors is, and will be for the years to come. I have presented you with how we work, and how our process works. We are always open to new ideas, but so far this has worked. The Rally Fighter is a great success so far, and it is still only the beginning. We are always striving to improve our process, our tools, and our techniques. But implementing a system like the one you have suggested simply does not make sense from my personal standpoint considering how Local Motors works. I don't see how it is sustainable, and I don't see why we are "obligated" to pay anyone who can pick up a pencil and piece of paper, scan their sketch, and post it on our site.
The Rally FIghter is a niche vehicle. There are those who will dislike it and say "it doesn't drive like my Audi".... and that is fine. That is why there is Audi. So they can go buy an Audi instead of a Rally FIghter.
Local Motors is similar. there will be people who come here and say "they are not paying the community members, they are not being fair etc..." and if that is how they feel, that is OK. There are plenty of other sites on the net where they can go make money (e-bay, second life, online gambling...) and they can go there instead.
I appreciate your thoughts and sharing them with us stingray. I hope this helps you understand our process and how we work a little better.
Like Danyael said, my opinions and thoughts here are mine, with a deep understanding and love for how Local Motors works.
Have a nice weekend.
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago idesigncars said:I'm going to go out on a limb here and potentially make myself look like a fool here, but I have one really big question here?
WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE? ok, maybe two questions... What is all the hoopla about?
I mean, seriously, this reminds me of Allen Iverson being criticized over missing one practice: The media went nuts because he failed to show up for one practice, and during the press conference, that is all the media wanted to talk about. Video is below.
My point is, I feel like this conversation is going around in circles, and is now on the cusp of turning into something other than a productive, informative conversation about the ethics and outcome of design collaboration. This conversation had been left alone since last November. Why it is being brought up again after such a long period of down time, I am not sure.....
Ari's recent response was very to the point and accurate.
Stingray, we are doing, in a way, what you suggest. Both Aurel and Myself were hired from the community. Both of us worked really hard to get here. Both of us were active members on the website, prior to even knowing we had a chance to work for Local Motors. When I made the packaging tutorial, photoshop file, and 3D model for the San Francisco competition, I did that because I was planning on participating in the competition and when I figured out that the engineering requirements clashed, I wanted to share my finding to help make the competition successful and fun for everyone. I spent 6 hours putting all of that together on a Saturday morning! I got up at 4 am to do it so that I could get it to the LM community before noon! And the thought of compensation never even crossed my mind. Because doing that, is what I love.
I logged on every day because Local Motors unites designers from almost 140 countries, and is an amazing place to come for inspiration, share your own work, get feedback, discuss design with others, and have a great time. I never thought about coming here for money. I never even think that every time I post my work I should be paid for it. Maybe it's because I value experience, feedback, knowledge and relationships more than I value money. Maybe it's because I value the open structure of Local Motors more than money. And maybe it's because I would rather see something I helped create become real than get paid for just another job.
There are thousands of communities on the internet. Open collaboration is the wave of the future, it is the next thing. Teams are now global, and teams are now made up of multi-faceted individuals. IF you go onto VWvortex for example, there are tons of mechanics and body-shop workers giving people advice on how to fix their car.... FOR FREE! If you go onto deviant art, there are tons of artists sharing their artwork, some that is even downloadable and can be used under creative commons licensees.
What you are suggesting is a completely different structure, a completely different company, and a completely different way of working.
Everything posted on Local Motors is voluntary-- meaning that everytime you post something, you are doing it knowing full well your rights and what it means to post your work to our website. But the work is still yours, and we will protect it if we feel that someone else is ripping you off.
Everytime Local Motors uses a design from a competition winner, or in the case with Sangho, for a car, Local Motors pays these designers an extremely generous amount of money. And we go beyond that-- we give them winners status on our website, and we promote their work, and themselves. We Flew Sangho to Boston last summer for several interviews.
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago R/Evo said:Speaking of ethics, what if anything happened to the member that was caught cheating during the last competition? Also I was hoping someone from the LM staff was going to posts any of comments that appeared to be agreed upon by the majority of the participants from the last LM Chat.
On the design competitions and member participation I'm seeing a similar trend that happened to another website I belong to. That group membership was selected by questionnaire review first, and was limited to 500 USA members. But over the course of a year and a half, they went through about 750 members, as only about 50 members were consistently active. Why the lack of participation? First it was easy to sign up, but to be a real 'shaker & mover' that they claimed to be, proved for many to be a bit of an exaggeration. Second, they quickly lost interest and / or commitment by lack of success (e.g. high scores or winning in LM comps) or get encouragement or realize the benefits of continued participation.
Though LM now has several thousand members, only 60-120 entries are submitted per competition. (That's like 2 - 3 % of the total membership!) It would also be safe to say only about 30 - 40 % are from members who joined a year ago and 60 - 70 % are members who just joined, or in the last 6 months.
Also please note who are regularly submitting posts to the LM website. Just a few passionate members from a year ago, the majority are also new. Thus if it wasn't for the constant influx of new members it would appear that this design collaboration might not be successful as it appears to be ... and paying for entries may also not be a solution.
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago Cas said:Peter Archer,
If your main point is that you want a part of the LM community that meets a certain standard should be rewarded more for their work, then (based on earlier comments) I see the following disadvantages:
-Not everyone can enter
-Less passion and enjoyment involved
-Higher costs
If this is not the point you are aiming at, then, for the sake of clarity, could you briefly define the problem and give your solution to that problem (in just a few sentences)?
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago TwoShoes said:Well living in Canada, I have no worries about health care and we actually have an economy so retirement, again, is not a problem either.
If you want an annuity to help to live off, design something unique, get a patent, and sell the idea.
We are good at that up here. Did anyone know a Canadian designed the battery, you know the thing the bunny advertises.
Diversify is the key, get patents, and don't hope to discovered, probably easier to win the power-ball lottery.
Enough noise from me I have to get back to work...
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago Stingraysstudios said:Twoshoes...I HEAR ya...& am BUILDING my own designs & selling them too. I DO understand very well the Design Cycles of diminishing returns & that is EXACTLY why a compensation packge is an EQUITABLE solution, in a way it becomes an "Annuity" that pays you back for Years to come from your efforts put forth today.
That after all IS & has to be the goal of any Independent Designer, as he is Not getting a pension or Health insurance or even a company car !!!''...Know what I mean ?...LOL
Yeah SEMA, see you there !!!....>>>>>
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago Bentley Boy said:Archer...you fool, I wasn't complimenting you, not even one bit. Recognize scathing sarcasm when it hits you like a tons of bricks...which was only for the sake of biting my tongue and not saying what I really wanted to say and what you really deserved to hear....! You...have a nice day.
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago Stingraysstudios said:LMAO,...Yo Greg THX Brudder !!!...
& uh, cuz you is so complimentary & undersand'in an shit...plus you are Funny As F***...LOL ...I love it, Bless you my son !...and remember this;
"If you fail to listen to what I am saying..You run the risk of being Wrong "
Yo, & uh, YOU can just call me MRDETROITMETAL bro !!!...ight ?
Or..you can jsut call me insane, or you can just call me know what I'm say'in ...LOL
THX.
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago TwoShoes said:Most interesting discussion, however for the most part totally irreverent.
Employing designers is not what this site is about, it is about 'design by community' rather than 'design by committee' as seen in the automotive industry.
Most of us are here for the fun of design, if the community chooses or helps shape a design, great, this is not here for fame and fortune, more for exposure of aspiring designers and entertainment for others.
The math or should I say arithmetic is rather flawed, since 2000 units may take as long as 10 years to sell, sort of changes the equation.
The noisy critics, by what they have said so far, seem to know very little about industry design cycles, and this leads to a suspicion as to why they are even bothering to make noise.
I know in stead of spending so much time being critical of what others are doing, why not actually build one of your designs?
That is exactly what I am doing, it's warm season and as much as I love to do design work, I would rather be building and, with a small modicum of luck, my vehicle will also be in the SEMA show Green Zone this year.
So please go build something,it's great therapy.
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago Stingraysstudios said:Whew...I went as fast as I could to provide the direct answers to the questions posed, but....I did *** Up a few of the word & lines ....so PLEASE excuse the rush job, I previously spent almost an hour answering EACH question...and then I got "timed out " and the whole damn post was erased !!!...awww, Fuu IT !!...LOL
Anyway, I hope that you ALL seriously consider what I am saying here & understand that I am NOT posting this just to aggravate & incite you to piss on these Ideas, nor to rebuke LM for whatever reasons.
Far from that i am Very Interested in the discussion here, as it also seems many of you are as well...and more importantly I think that we have a Real Opportunity to as I said "set an Industry Standard" for the open source community design strategy.
But, it HAS to Be a REAL Viable alternative to attract & involve leaders to bring about the delivered models for LM, & that means when like I said I cam make a small bundle designing just ONE Custom, WHY would I want to then go and Design a Model for production for a Company that pays me ZIP, Nada, Zero... upfront ??? Actually I Cant AFFORD to do that !!!...& there is the "bottom line"...YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO EITHER.
To Stingraysstudios
1 days ago Bentley Boy said:Peter Archer - you are such a positive guy... What we do without your great wisdom? We must all strive to be as holy and righteous as you so that we all may have even one percent the deserving chance that you have to get into car designer's heaven...oh wait, I forgot, you're the car design God so...well that pretty much says it all. Forgive us, our hallowed Peter Archer, for we have all sinned and are not worthy to cringe in your all powerful and unmerciful presence! Please, show us your kindhearted ness so that we may not perish in the pits of auto kitsch hell. You have been so kind to send us your only son, Omnipotent Opinion, so that if we believe and accept it we may have everlasting life as car designers! For Pete's sake, Saint Archer, we pray you gratitude, we kiss your holy feet, and put our trust in you to rule, with the iron fist of a third world dictator, LM, Detroit, the entire US auto industry, the whole international auto industry, in fact the whole freakin' world...quite possibly the universe (of course you rule the universe...why should we even be so faithless to doubt that) forver and ever - in the name of Peter Archer, Detroit & Stingraystudios - A-freakin-men!
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago Bentley Boy said:Peter Archer - you are such a positive guy... What we do without your great wisdom? We must all strive to be as holy and righteous as you so that we all may have even one percent the deserving chance that you have to get into car designer's heaven...oh wait, I forgot, you're the car design God so...well that pretty much says it all. Forgive us, our hallowed Peter Archer, for we have all sinned and are not worthy to cringe in your all powerful and unmerciful presence! Please, show us your kindhearted ness so that we may not perish in the pits of auto kitsch hell. You have been so kind to send us your only son, Omnipotent Opinion, so that if we believe and accept it we may have everlasting life as car designers! For Pete's sake, Saint Archer, we pray you gratitude, we kiss your holy feet, and put our trust in you to rule, with the iron fist of a third world dictator, LM, Detroit, the entire US auto industry, the whole international auto industry, in fact the whole freakin' world...quite possibly the universe (of course you rule the universe...why should we even be so faithless to doubt that) forver and ever - in the name of Peter Archer, Detroit & Stingraystudios - A-freakin-men!
Dawn
1 days ago Dias said:It doesn't mean you leave B&W tecnhique. As I already tell you, you just need to work more on your shading so that people can understand what you're trying to transmit.
I just think you should see new horizons and not only work with B&W. Never be afraid of experimenting new things.
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago Stingraysstudios said:Please answer these questions:
- How many designers (and thus competitions) could realistically be employed every year?
- How much would LM have to pay each designer for 'entering' a competition?
- How much for winning?
- Given that we only do a run of 2000 cars of each design, how much does the competition prizes add to the price of each car?
- What exactly will the winner do to earn that year of salary? (which is the minimum you proposed)
- If the winner earns their salary by designing more than one car, how does that affect the number of competitions we can run, and the number of other people that get a chance at having their dream become real?
Answer : Let's Do the math...2000 cars sold @ $30,000 each equals a SIXTY MILLION DOLLAR REVENUE STREAM ($ 60,000,000.00)...OK ? Now, let us take 50% of that away for "Hard Costs" to manufacture, then another 50% od that for "operational costs"...that leaves $ 15M bucks.
OK, so that is close to a net / gross income, but let's take another $5M out for advertising, stock dividends, & other related expenses...so now we have $10M to work with as a bottom line Gross / Net income to LM on the 2000 cars sold.
So tell me why we ( as LM ) can't then afford to PAY THE DESIGNERS ?
Here is the strategy that WORKS....you configure various Design Teams under those of the community who are "professional quality" designers, and can be counted on to deliver on time & on spec a specific design brief as set forth by LM corporate staff.
Each of the design teams are granted a budget, to develop & execute a concept design for the purposed "model", then as each member of the team is aquired, under the guidance & accptance of the team leader, they are Paid from the budget for thier "contributions"...now this can be any form of effort from a simple "IDEA" to a full blown render, it matters not as each team membert is paid a fee for thier participation.
The winning team, whose design is accepted by the LM corporate managers, then is paid an additional % of the Net / Gross earnings, say 10%...That in ourn scenario here would be ONE MILLION DOLLARS !!!
This in turn would enable LM to stage multiple competitions for different specific models, relying upon the "open source" community to develop & submit concepts for evaluation & acceptance,leading to production and sales of a new LM product.
I think what you need to realize is that LM is not a viable 'employment' opportunity for designers and never was intended to be. But as I have said many times, we offer the one thing that the big companies can not.
A chance at your dream being made real.
Answer : BS, ALL of the Big Auto companies "hire" on contract Independent designer to create & develop specific models for thier lineup. the HHR, PT, Viper, Camaro, Volt, Shelby Mustang, ....even to the point where a single designer may just do a front or rear "clip" or a interior or ...etc & THAT is a real "job"...not a "full time employment" but an independent contractor agreement.
If we go the route of hiring developers long term, then we need to make more money of each car, make more cars, and most importantly - make the cars appeal to a wider audience so we can sell more to afford to pay for the year 's salary for the designer.
Answer : No, because then LM would just be another Toyota, coping the designs of established Auto Companies to make "appliance cars" for people who could care less about what they drive. LM is exactly the opposite of that, in what makes LM products "stand out " is the uniqueness of the DESIGN....therefore the DESIGN IS THE MAIN SELLING ELEMENT IN ALL LM PRODUCTS !!!
This results in that we become one just another big car maker, with soulless mass appeal designs and no one get's their dream car made anymore. Local Motors needs a lot of fresh designs, different every time, for a small, local, audience. This does not mesh well with few developers employed at high salaries over long contracts.We end up with fewer designers doing more designs, and the cars start to resemble the designer's style.We end up with higher need to make money off each design and lose that unique riskiness we can afford with community designs. We start to need safe, stable designs that most people will buy.
Answer : NO, people do NOT knowmexactly what they "want", as it is up to the Designer to create an expression of the cultural time & hit the nailon the head with a kick ass design. Look at the Dodge Charger & Chrysler 300, now in concept it is just a 4 door sedan, BUT...somehow the DESIGNERS found a "market" for the aggressive & stylish models, and they have sold Very welll for the company as a result, even though the Design is different & went against the "trend of the day".
So please answer my questions above, and show me a viable business plan that would:
- have a large number of competitions each year
- produce unique designs
- give as many people as possible the chance to have their dream made real
- hand over sacks of cash to designers
- Not bankrupt LM after 3 or 4 competitions
- Not result in LM having more designers than all other staff on the payroll
Answer :I just did that. Noe the real question is dose LM acdept the "responsibility" as a Industry Leader of Open source Design to establish a realistic & viable compensation relationship with the design community here @ the LM website ?
i.e.
LM has already run ( many) competitions.So by your reasoning we should now have' full time designers working at LM. Given that our staff count is around 10, we would have a ratio of 2 to 1 designers to other staff. Our salary costs, by far the biggest expense of a business, would be 3x their current level. How is that in any way sustainable?
Answer : I think that it obvious that indeed not only is it "sustainable" to follow the directionI have outlined here but also imperative that LM dose in fact do something along these direct lines to establish Industry standards for Open Source designs & their contributing artists.
Think about it....A dream is just a dream unless you have the means to make it real...real as it can be. otherwise like me you can just build one or two "custom concepts" at a time & still maje as much as what I have outlined here for you. There is the "twist"...Hoe is LM going to attract real Professional Designers who by thier expertise can assist & inspire the Jr members of the community & "hire" them on to a design tean for the real world learning experience...& a paycheck as well. The promise of a Big Payoff if indeed your design team wins & the model is produced, while you will be required to work through ALL the steps to maintain integruity of the Original design, coordinating with engineering struvcture, and the various components, as well as marketing & option packages once the model is onn the market...but that is the reason for a "team" so that ALL of this Can Be handled & working with the LM corporate staff deliver a unoque & desireable product, one that has a DIRECT BENEFIT to ALL the particpating & contributing memebers of the "open Source" community here @ LM.
Dawn
1 days ago judgemental541 said:im actually not liking this all that muchmuch.. i really do miss my b&w style.. =[, maybe if i just try to keep he reflections right, but i do miss my hard soft brush stylr from b4, >.<
5th Element
1 days ago idesigncars said:This checkup was approved on Saturday March-th 2010 01:57:26 PM
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago Ari said:Note that when LM has hiring needs, and we do have hiring needs for design, engineering, you name it - we turn to the community. Both Aurel & Nyko were hired from the community.
Sting, we're doing what you've asked.
Danyel, you are a protector of opensource and I love it. Opensource ideals have transformed technology development, and these same ideals can speed the progression of automotive development.
Change is hard on some and that's ok. Thanks for openly conversing.
p.s. the Rally Fighter is rocking in Austin, TX right now!
To YoungY
1 days ago Ari said:Yong, either give Scott Robertson credit for the original design IN the image #52977 (which you have sketched over), or remove it from your portfolio.
I'll check back in 6 hours to see which you've chosen.
Thanks for being a part of this community - you'll see that we all try to protect the work of one another, and we will do the same for you.
Dawn
1 days ago Dias said:Hey judge nice one. You see, a very good improvement since your last one
I believe our conversation had some good resultls after all: Color is good and your shading is much better. And yeah you have some issues with windshield's pespective but it's very easy to correct.
doble bubble
1 days ago elielrojas said:Dias, thank you I will use it to render. Probably not soon since everybody is getting ready for the Pacific competition. I read that you might participate. I am, as well as other who you've help, waiting to see your design if you participate. Thanks again
Dawn
1 days ago judgemental541 said:i was thinking since it was sorta a worms eye view, itd be narrower but yeah, it is a bit arrow, thanks
jeep 2020
1 days ago Aracnid said:Very nice! I think I'd need a shoehorn to fit through the door, though.
red-antx
1 days ago Aracnid said:Is the 4 cylinder there only to be used when the center engine dies? Surely, there must be a simpler and cheaper way to get around the problem of being able to fix your car while on a long trip vacation.
Also, having all that weight way up front detracts from the handling; the very thing a mid-engine car is designed for.
To YoungY
1 days ago icardezign said:if u want to see exact image(only better)go to http://drawthrough.com/galleries.php?page=show_art&gallery_id=228&art_id=2766
To YoungY
1 days ago icardezign said:total copier of scott robertson (image 52977)...did you trace it? it is not cool to take the same exact idea as another!!
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago Danayel said:um somehow the number' got cut out of that last post.
LM has run19 competitions so far.
p.s. It is obvious we won't see eye to eye on this. I have said my piece, so unless you can come up with a sustainable, workable, realistic business plan that keeps LM dynamic with fresh designs while fulfilling your goals, I am out of here.
Dragging this out will just make us both look bad.
I seriously and sincerely recommend you look elsewhere for your well paid full time employment with 100% creative freedom, because it is just not likely to happen will LM.
Even if it does, then the job will only last a few months until it goes out of business.
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago Danayel said:I got your point. But that doesn't make it realistic or viable.
What LM is doing is doable, and we are doing it.
You have yet to provide a realistic alternative.
Please answer these questions:
- How many designers (and thus competitions) could realistically be employed every year?
- How much would LM have to pay each designer for 'entering' a competition?
- How much for winning?
- Given that we only do a run of 2000 cars of each design, how much does the competition prizes add to the price of each car?
- What exactly will the winner do to earn that year of salary? (which is the minimum you proposed)
- If the winner earns their salary by designing more than one car, how does that affect the number of competitions we can run, and the number of other people that get a chance at having their dream become real?
I think what you need to realize is that LM is not a viable 'employment' opportunity for designers and never was intended to be.
But as I have said many times, we offer the one thing that the big companies can not.
A chance at your dream being made real.
If we go the route of hiring developers long term, then we need to make more money of each car, make more cars, and most importantly - make the cars appeal to a wider audience so we can sell more to afford to pay for the year 's salary for the designer.
This results in that we become one just another big car maker, with soulless mass appeal designs and no one get's their dream car made anymore.
Local Motors needs a lot of fresh designs, different every time, for a small, local, audience. This does not mesh well with few developers employed at high salaries over long contracts.
We end up with fewer designers doing more designs, and the cars start to resemble the designer's style.
We end up with higher need to make money off each design and lose that unique riskiness we can afford with community designs. We start to need safe, stable designs that most people will buy.
So please answer my questions above, and show me a viable business plan that would:
- have a large number of competitions each year
- produce unique designs
- give as many people as possible the chance to have their dream made real
- hand over sacks of cash to designers
- Not bankrupt LM after 3 or 4 competitions
- Not result in LM having more designers than all other staff on the payroll
i.e.
LM has already run' competitions.
So by your reasoning we should now have' full time designers working at LM.
Given that our staff count is around 10, we would have a ratio of 2 to 1 designers to other staff. Our salary costs, by far the biggest expense of a business, would be 3x their current level.
How is that in any way sustainable?
The other alternative would be to have only 1-2 comps a year to keep designer numbers to a "sustainable" level.
How boring would LM be with only 1 comp a year? Would anyone even hang around?
I repeat what I said above. LM is not a viable employment alternative at a "professional level" for large numbers of designers. It was never intended to be, and doubt ever will be.
Please stop trying to make it into what it isn't.
LM is already an amazing result.
Regarding your second post:
That is great that works for you. I am glad you have somewhere that does what you want.
But that is not LM. If that job is so great, then I wish you luck with it.
Maybe you will have better luck convincing that client to give you complete creative freedom with the design, then give away the finished design when it is finished, and then hire another' teams for a year to make more creatively free designs for him to give away. (which is what you are asking LM to do)
p.s. I did a lot of saying "LM is and isn't XYZ. Ultimately it is up to Jay to say what LM is, not me, this is purely my impression from how it is presented and how we discuss it. Jay or Ari may step in at any point and tell me I am a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic, so take this with a grain of flexibility.
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago KEKOEV said:Making us improve on our skills with every comment on checkups and those amazing competitions and giving money to the winners?.....i guess sting is right!.....you LM are taking advantage of us!.
dont you know we dont want to design something awesome as the Rally Fighter happens to be? as designers, we just want to work on a design studio putting 3 pairs off headlights and tail lamps on camaros, thats what proffesionals designers do, right sting?
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago Stingraysstudios said:Allow me to give you all a concrete example of exactly what I am saying here.
Currently, my studio is developing a "Project Build Design" to create a NASCAR Dodge Challenger and we need a "Team" to execute that build.
Now I am NOT asking anyone to "work for free" on this, as it will be done with a predetermined "budget" and time line to deliver a completed result.
That is the Real World. You do what needs to be done with a purpose at hand, to accomplish a goal. Now...the "brief" for the design will be defined by the Customer, who in this case is a NASCAR driver, wherein HE will determine exactly what He Wants in the resulting automobile.
To assemble a development & build team, we are setting a "standard" that you must qualify to meet, then based upon the CUSTOMER approval, you get the contract to work on the project.
You get Paid for your effort. You are expected to Deliver on time as specified. You are a Professional.
LM has this Same Opportunity. I am just setting an example of HOW to do this & encouraging the rest of you here to THINK on this & see what we can define as an ongoing "realtionship" between an Auto Maker & an "Open Source" design/build team.
Understand ?
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago Stingraysstudios said:Danayel, ...You missed my point. What I AM drawing attention to is this specifically ; As a manufacturer of marketable products in the Automotive Industry, LM if indeed they are intent upon utilizing the "Open Source" model as a viable infrastructure for the Industry, ( which in concept I personally do NOT oppose, hence the reason I continue here )...Then LM has a Responsibility within the Industry to then go ahead & "Set The Standards" for such "employment"...This Could Be a Great Alternative to many designers who think that the ONLY opportunity they have is to get a "JOB" at one of the Big Auto Makers !!!
IF...& I say this with intent, IF then LM can offer a "Viable Alternative" on a Professional Level, it would then be an excellent accomplishment wherein LM CAN create a professional arrangement with various designers that offers a "pay for play" option to getting a "job" !!!
THAT is my entire contention here.
That IS a do able thing.
That if indeed WE ALL put our minds to it, rather than "defending LM at all cost"...COULD be a truly Amazing Result !!!
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago Danayel said:Then just stop submitting if you don't like it.
Please.
Because what you are proposing is completely unsustainable.
What we have now is entirely voluntary, and completely open, no one is being deceived or misled.
If there is a better deal elsewhere go take it. I would.
If you aren't happy then you should definitely go somewhere where you will get paid the way you want.
Now, please keep in mind that LM takes the winning designs, turns them into a build-able set of technical specs and then releases those technical specs as an *open source* document to the community.
We give back more than 200% of what is given us, and on top of that we pay the winners.
The community keeps the designs submitted in their entirety. LM keeps nothing locked up.
You can even take the LM tech specs and build them yourself and get your very own Rally Fighter without paying LM a cent.
We don't make our money off the designs. We make our money off building cars. We could do it with or without community designs.
We chose to do it via community designs to give the widest variety of people a chance to get their design made real. Instead of just hiring a few designers GM let go and having them design everything, then copyrighting those designs so only we could make them.
If you want to get technical, what the competitions are for are more to decide who is going to get their design made into a build-able specification, than "who is going to provide big bad LM with their next cash cow mwahahaha"
If you don't want your design made into a build-able, open source specification and don't want some cash to go with it. That's fine. Nobody is forcing you to. Just take your designs to Hyandai and be done with it.
We are not GM. We are not Ford, We are not Toyota. We are not Hyandai.
We are Local Motors.
If you don't like Local Motors, don't try to make us into GM. Leave us be and go hang out at GM.
LM keeps nothing of the design "to ourselves", it is all given back to the community under a Creative Commons license.
So what you are saying is that you want us to pay every designer who submits an entry a sack of cash, regardless of quality. Then hand every winner a sack of cash every month forever, so we can take your design, put 10-100 times as much work into it you did so that it can become a build-able vehicle. THEN we release those designs back to the community so that anyone can build those vehicles without paying a cent to LM.
Did you even think about what you are proposing?
The people who benefit most from LM converting the designs into technical specifications is NOT LM. It is YOU the community.
The Rally fighter has been worked on by half a dozen engineers and artists for over 1 year now.
Sangho put a lot of work into the Rally Fighter, but I can assure it was not the equivalent of 5 man years.
The end result is that YOU get a build ready vehicle design, that you can take home and do pretty much what you want with.
What other car company on earth release their designs Open Source to the community????
None that I know of. (I could be wrong, but they certainly aren't common)
It is not realistic in any way, shape of form, to pay a designer forever, or even for a year, for a design that you will spend a year making into specs, and then GIVE AWAY.
It is generous enough that the winners get what they do.
I wish I could hand someone my ideas for a computer program, have them build it for me, give it back to me and then pay me for the honor of doing it.
Please mate, where can I get some of what you are smoking?
The Ethics & Outcome of Design Collaboration
1 days ago Stingraysstudios said:Just think you ALL should consider that in the present "market" for Auto Designers it is a VERY CLOSED system, in that...the "job" opportunities available are dwindling away as corporate budgets dictate less & less expense on employee compensation.
Look at GM, they "let go" a whole bunch of designers & this happened not only with GM, but ALL of the USA auto makers during the recent "restructuring" process. Many of those GM designers ended up at Hyundai, Kia & elsewhere, the evidence of thier influence can really be seen in Hyundai recent models, they LOOK like GM "rejects" !!
My point here is this, IF your going to establish an "Alternative Design" infrastructure, based upon a "community" effort....Then you need to provide a REAL WORLD solution for the "participants"...IMO.
Otherwise your just taking advantage of the "talent pool" without a fair compensation. Many of the works I see here are Very Professional executions, regardless of the "manufacture" probability, they represent a Good Deal of Personal EFFORT to accomplish.
Business is BUSINESS. That means that when you "create a design" on a professional presentation level, as Many of the members here do, they Should have some recourse to a "stipend" at the very least.
Now I know my perspective may not "go down easy" with ALL of you here, But...There ARE 2 levels of submissions here, in that some members ARE professional (or quality wise represent that level of expertise) & others are student level, NOT to demean those persons at all, as we all have to learn & go through the "process" to arrive at our own "Art of Design".
My entire point here, & I must THANK all of you for the "spirited" discussion, was not so much to "knock" LM, ..no far from that, rather to infuse a "Higher Standard" of competition.
REAL Designers are at each others throat to get their "ideas" pushed through into production, & that requires a "grounding in design & concept" which just cannot be disputed. Even at that, the companies still have gone " outside" the talent pool to hire an Independent Designer to create new models for their lineups.
Therein lies MY "Bitch"...If indeed we are each of us here "Independent Designers" then we ARE entitled to some form of compensation (at a professional level) for the EFFORTS we develop & submit to LM.
Detroit Muscle Car
1 days ago Stingraysstudios said:The TOP picture is the final design for the rear, the rest are the development drawings...there is more to follow on this one soon. The concept is a present day Ford Coupe, I call this one a "3 window coupe" for the backlight structure which has 3 different windows, the center on opens up & the entire rear deck also lifts. The "inspiration for the look" was the GT 40 / Ford GT...in a more production coupe platform.
NASCAR ideas
1 days ago Stingraysstudios said:OK...Here is the deal on this NASCAR Challenger ; We are going to BUILD this for a leading NASCAR driver, who will "spec it out" & then go take it to the track & wring it out ! Then...we are going to give it away to some Very Lucky fan !!! If you would like to contribute to this process, Please contact me & tell us what you can offer as we are putting together a "build team" for this one..
Pacific Motors
1 days ago Stingraysstudios said:^ Yeah...I figured the "3rd" passenger was your Dog !!!...lol.
Pacific Motors
1 days ago wburkman said:Is this the first competition requires more than two passengers? For me two always seems to be the perfect number for an exquisite car, but it stretches the mind a little further.
Pacific Motors
1 days ago MBW17 said:ahh Im starting to get a feeling that I won't have time for this comp, and I don't like the feeling at all...
Pacific Motors
1 days ago wburkman said:Just checking, doesn't the competition require 3-6 passengers? I only see the two front seats (probably adding more later). In the first blue picture the hood-windshield lines looks more parallel so that the front is one slope, thats cool.
3 wheeler
1 days ago idesigncars said:This checkup was approved on Saturday March-th 2010 12:07:03 AM
Pacific Motors
1 days ago Bentley Boy said:Try this:
http://www.traveloregon.com/
http://www.oregonscenics.com/
http://www.oregonfoto.com/index2.php
Pacific Motors
1 days ago Dias said:Well I don't know if it will be the best LM comp, but I know it's a hell of a good theme!! Joining the 4 elements is a briliant idea.
Does anyone have some links with more pics from the best Pacific NW spots?
doble bubble
1 days ago Dias said:Something like this eliel----->
No worries about the concept itself, only perspective and proportions. Compare both and check the differences. Hope it helps, if you want you can use it for rendering
15min sketch
Pacific Motors
1 days ago MBW17 said:Hey guys, just wanted to make a forum post about the newest competition. Wanted to hear everyones thoughts about it, and I think we could make this the best competition that local motors has ever seen! ahh feel free to discuss and post your sketches on the thread! I'm going to try and enter if i have time, goodluck to all!!
3D-Studio MAX
2 days ago idesigncars said:This checkup was approved on Friday March 12th 2010 05:36:19 PM
NASCAR ideas
2 days ago idesigncars said:This checkup was approved on Friday March 12th 2010 05:36:17 PM
Pacific Motors
2 days ago idesigncars said:This checkup was approved on Friday March 12th 2010 05:36:14 PM
Motor launch sketch
2 days ago idesigncars said:This checkup was approved on Friday March 12th 2010 05:36:11 PM
Detroit Muscle Car
2 days ago idesigncars said:This checkup was approved on Friday March 12th 2010 05:36:09 PM
doble bubble
2 days ago elielrojas said:Adammentz, thank you. Yes, the wheels are "cut and paste," I thought about retouching them I just didn't. Dias: Yes, any improvement is appreciated.
The wild boar
2 days ago Dadaaa said:And yes I've not finished my car design because i make this work in one night lol
The wild boar
2 days ago Dadaaa said:it is just my first work on car design. Thus think you for your comments and votes.
Design & Technology Posts
2 days ago R/Evo said:I don't think that I will ever grow up when it comes to liking toys. Thus this RC Live Steam Tank 1 caught my eye!
To NemoDesigns
2 days ago ely862me said:I ll be away tomorrow, so i congratulate you now:
Happy birthday Nemo! Wish u a happy life and if not all,at leas some of ur design to become real! God bless you!
doble bubble
2 days ago Dias said:Much better than your previous one elie!! Well done.
It has still some things to improve, mainly on perspective. I'll help you on this later at night cause now I don't have time.
doble bubble
2 days ago adammentz said:Except for the wheels this look alsmost like a 3d model. Well done
doble bubble
2 days ago idesigncars said:This checkup was approved on Thursday March 11th 2010 10:34:14 PM
To Ari
2 days ago NemoDesigns said:hey you guys were supposed to fly me down to Austin for some clubbin' and RF action!!!! remember!!!
-quick sketch-
3 days ago GoranIgor said:I feel like you wanted to do the job as soon as possible. Like you dont put enough effort into it. Therefore it seems to me like the rendering is not convincing enough. I'm sure that the next one will be much better
To Ari
3 days ago Bentley Boy said:And just to clarify..."Subi-snacks" = Subarus...in case anyone is wondering
To Ari
3 days ago Y-One said:BB is right. I was talking about your rap / gangsta language which is very funny
To Bentley Boy
3 days ago Y-One said:Thx BB. I'll add you and we'll find a way to chat. Anyway i'm usually connected very late, ask Ari
To Y-One
3 days ago Bentley Boy said:I added my msn id on to my page. Only thing is, with the big time difference (I think 8-9 hours difference) I'm not sure if the chat availability will be so mutual. But, maybe on the weekend when it is morning here and evening there? Let me know what works for you & looking forward to talking with you.
To Ari
3 days ago Bentley Boy said:I think Y-One is referring to my commentary in the Kanye/Lupe Fiasco dialect...
And yes, I too would like to see you speak to the press like Kanye/Lupe ahahaha.
To Bentley Boy
3 days ago Ari said:I love your enthusiasm
Thoroughly confusing for those tuning in from another part of the world, but totally inspiring!
Design & Technology Posts
3 days ago R/Evo said:Checkout an example of South Korean artist Ji Yong-Ho sculpture, he is reusing old tires as his medium ... sweet!
My sketch checkup
3 days ago Cas said:#2 has so much potential! The way you're explaining the surfaces is very good. But what is really bothering me is the wheel size (and position) and the width of the car. I think these proportions are so important. I've reduced the wheel size and made the ground clearance bigger and stretched the front.
Honda CRX
3 days ago Dias said:Oh and I'm not the bad voter lol I only saw this check up now
A good vote for you
Honda CRX
3 days ago Dias said:Seems quite good. Nothing to point
I just have one critic regarding your render. One thing I don't like is when people put wheels from a pic into a sketch. That technique only works if your render is highly detailed, almost photo realistic, which is not the case. The difference in terms of details between a normal sketch, like yours, and wheels is huge, hence my critic.
If you draw some wheels yourself, even if it's only the spokes, it will look much better. But it's my personal taste and opinion. Doesn't mean you agree with me lol
Anyway, overall is a good work
Ostara
3 days ago chavito said:Thanks Dias
the down part is only for battery.
Is a 2x2 passangers vehicle. The back pasangers area can be transformed in al cargo area.
jeep 2020
3 days ago papagomp said:I agree that there is power in this,(check out the haunches), not sure about the speed, it might just be the particular rendering, where the vehicle looks very static....
Honda CRX
3 days ago Cas said:Hey LM community! Here's the front sketch > Don't hesitate to comment! I appreciate every constructive comment. Bad-voter please share me your dislikes. Thanks bas!
Limited run production
3 days ago sarahstokes said:Yes, limited run. We will make 2,000 Rally Fighters. After that point we will already be making other LM vehicles. For the Rally Fighter, there will not be model years nor will their be different 'trim' levels.
Limited run production
3 days ago sarahstokes said:"Is the Rally Fighter going to be a limited run production?" -email question from Chris
Design Books
3 days ago Chalk. said:What are some good books on vehicle design? I'm not necessarily interested in learning how to become a designer; I'm just more interested in expanding how I critique/analyze designs. Like most people, I can say "yes" or "no" to weather I like a design but what specifically I like or don't like, is what I'd like to be able to explain in more detail.
B7
3 days ago Chalk. said:Fliski, first of all congrats on your commitment to developing this car and being open to input. I think its cool that you have stuck with it for so long (it looks you've been working on this for almost 2 years).
Anyways, I wanted to bring to your attention something that hasn't been brought up regarding your diffuser. Now I know this is still a developing concept so I don't know if details like this should be examined at this time. But I wanted to bring this up because this might drastically change the appearance if this was ever brought to real life. The angle of you diffuser, relative to the ground plane, is steep compared to most functional diffusers. I believe that most functional diffusers on race cars have operated in the range of ~7-20 degrees in the past. Even though this is a road car (right?) and not a race car, I believe the same rule of thumb can be applied to a road car.
So I just wanted to bring that to your attention in case this throws off any of your other design features/elements. You don't necessarily have to change it; its just something to think about.
jeep 2020
3 days ago idesigncars said:This checkup was approved on Thursday March 11th 2010 08:42:56 AM
Jaguar XC
3 days ago idesigncars said:This checkup was approved on Thursday March 11th 2010 08:42:55 AM
-quick sketch-
3 days ago papagomp said:Good 1st attempt, I too have just gotten a new tablet, and am getting to grips with it. Agree for the need for sharper lines, and the overhangs could be a bit more realistic, its worth investing time in the sketch before rendering, because once the basics are right, it becpmes a lot more believable as a result. But keep trying and playing, I will too!!
Plane designs
3 days ago Cas said:Great stuff here! I did this sketch some time ago. It's ready to be rendered
-quick sketch-
3 days ago braunarsch said:thanks ely! lol, u asked too late
i already gave it away i shall try doing more sharper images, probably in photoshop.
To Bentley Boy
3 days ago Y-One said:Hi Greg! I'd like to chat with you about the comp, discuss some ideas, and talk also plane designs. So if you have MSN or SKype, give me your contact plz.
To Ari
3 days ago Y-One said:Hum Ari? I'm calling John, you're having a mental breakdown
Love your messages, I'd love to see you speak to the press like that ahahah
To judgemental541
3 days ago Dias said:No problem mate. I know it can be hard to read critics but you need to differentiate the good critics from the bad critics. A designer is a student for life and we are always learning new things so it's good to hear new opinions. What I said was for your own good, not for mine
Cheers
-quick sketch-
3 days ago ely862me said:can i get the old one .. ;)) Kidding!
Try some sharper edges !and try to get rid of the cartoonish look(bad proportions)
-quick sketch-
3 days ago braunarsch said:i'm testing out my newly purchased wacom intuos
still getting used to its sensitivity. sketch was done via sketchbookpro, would love to hear some feedback
To idesigncars
3 days ago Bentley Boy said:Nice work on the Pacific Motors brief - way to rep' for The NW!!!!!!
To Vasilij Kourkoff
3 days ago Bentley Boy said:Love your Jeep Pygmy...so unique and headturning. BTW, I loved the "Torino Design - Lirica d'Este" post you had on your blog the other day. You presented the retro graphics and forms in a really fresh way...I'd love to see more of that concept as the head-on teaser render has me hugely intrigued and salivating for more.
To Ari
3 days ago Bentley Boy said:Pardon the random dialect...listening to Young Jeezy, Kanye (Chi-town, what's poppin'!), Taio Cruz, Lupe, etc. right now...
To Ari
3 days ago Bentley Boy said:Fo sho...can't wait to see the motor madness blow up for The NW! We brought you the 2K10 Olympics in VC-BC, and now we goin' to bring you the baddest Subi-snack eating LM competition 'eva'! Time to lace up the Nik's and rep fo' my hood (you know, the Mt. Hood) hahahahahahhahahahaha!
To tthomas
3 days ago R/Evo said:Just checking if you got my message concerning some probs. I had earlier today. I sent it through the feedback link in my profile. Thx!
To Dias
3 days ago judgemental541 said:hey about earlier, i was a bit touchy,, lol yeah i guess im not so great with taking criticism just yet :P, but i really do appreciate ur comments, those do help alot more than just saying somethings good. so thanks, and will try to keep it simple in the coming checkups, so we'll see how that goes
Rally Fighter Forum Description
3 days ago tthomas said:Welcome to the Rally Fighter discussion forum! Please feel free to ask your questions about the Rally Fighter here, or participate in topics started by others.
Plane designs
3 days ago Bentley Boy said:Also, last summer I did a two-slide rendering project for an Anglo-Italian race plane featuring a supercharged 16-cylinder boxer engine, radiators & exhaust ports (the exhausts were two 8-into-1 units that acted as twin thrust ports rather than the traditional straight-pipes-out-of-te-cowling) buried in the wing roots, swept-leading-edge laminar wings, and a v-tail like on the Beech Bonanza or Y-One's 4th slide here. I used the boxer arrangement as it allowed for a much flatter/lower, balanced front cross-section (more akin to a blended wing layout, but not totally) and better cg than a traditional v-engine layout. I haven't found access to a scanner big enough to scan the large format slides - which I hope to soon - but the Macchi MC 72 - pictured here >> - Supermarine S6, Macchi MC 202/205, and Supermarine Spitfire were the principle influences for the project.
Plane designs
3 days ago Bentley Boy said:Sweet post dude - it's like Speedbirds here @ LM! I'll add this right now...here's a quick & dirty sketch from a few weeks ago >>
Sketch Practice
3 days ago MBW17 said:well its mainly done in copic markers, then for the light blue i used a little colored pencil, and i used black for shadows but i had to use the airbrush in PS bc the blue color pencil got knocked out when i scanned it, thanks Greg!
1st supercar in Romania
3 days ago judgemental541 said:the rear is awesome now
havE to say though, the front in checkup 5 was my all-time fave
1st supercar in Romania
3 days ago braunarsch said:definitely cooler now, rear lights look waay better! those round lights could be removed entirely imo, kinda hides the beauty of the LED strips
1st supercar in Romania
3 days ago ely862me said:Thank you guys!
U kind of have right Ari about the disjointed feeling..will see next time what can i do about it!
God Bless !